The rubber hits the road: MSB direct to power amp or not?

Actually, another observation: think my Pandora (which I bought 2nd hand) was faulty from the start. Am jamming the system at level 46 and am certain that pre-repair I needed to get to 55+ for a similar output. And what I am hearing now is much more balanced. Probably should have sent my 2nd hand Pandora to my dealer for a full check before I purchased it. Anyway, US$300 equivalent for repairs and I am super happy. The value of a good dealer.
 
Tested my US$700 canare speaker cables against my MIT $7.5k cables (which my dog ate) replacement testing cables in a blind testing with mates. Nobody could tell the difference. Fascinating.

Which model Canare speaker cable?
 
How about a dollar figure for what you consider the bottom of the scale of the price performance cure where a preamp will hinder the purity of a source?

it's really not a fixed dollar figure thing, more an awareness thing. it depends on how good the source is, and the level of the preamp you are bypassing, how good or bad the cables you are eliminating. and overall system refinement. you might have an active preamp that is working fine, but upgrade your speakers or improve room acoustics, and now that preamp is revealed to be a detriment. your system situation can evolve and change the equation.

it's like where an integrated dac/pre is better than separates. saving on one chassis boosts the quality of the internal circuits up to a certain quality level.

is that under $3k, under $5k? or maybe under $20k. no hard and fast rule. just don't add a preamp and expect it to be better. it might be different, or worse. it's most relevant when you are trying to judge system dollar allocation and at what point adding a preamp makes sense. take the preamp budget and add it to the source or speaker budget might take you further. better interconnects and power cables for your source might push you further than a preamp (i realize cable performance is not universally valued).

of course switching sources, driving long interconnects, amplification synergy, and remote volume control are all reasons to add an active preamp. but performance can suffer adding those features.

i'm just always cautious about the effect of any preamp. i went 4 years with a passive after i moved on from my Mark Levinson #32 back 20 years ago. i tried 5 or 6 spendy preamps that my passive surpassed or equaled. until i found the darTZeel.
 
IMO, unless you are a one trick digital pony, you need a preamp. If all you need is a digital source with a volume control so you can connect your digital source directly to your amp, good on ya. My system requires a preamp with both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs.
 
IMO, unless you are a one trick digital pony, you need a preamp. If all you need is a digital source with a volume control so you can connect your digital source directly to your amp, good on ya. My system requires a preamp with both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs.

i'm with you 100% Mark, as i too have multiple sources....multiple....multiple. so need an active preamp. it's essential for me.

but the subject of this thread is relevant to a single source system. so i was trying to expand on the issues involved in the decision.
 
i'm with you 100% Mark, as i too have multiple sources....multiple....multiple. so need an active preamp. it's essential for me.

but the subject of this thread is relevant to a single source system. so i was trying to expand on the issues involved in the decision.

Understood.
 
Tested my US$700 canare speaker cables against my MIT $7.5k cables (which my dog ate) replacement testing cables in a blind testing with mates. Nobody could tell the difference. Fascinating.

if you paid 700 for any Canare you were gypped. I use Canare and a 100 meter roll can be had for less than 4 bills.
 
They are custom made by a cable company which uses Canare to make them. Half the cost was actually the furutech connectors.
 
Sure. Am 100% digital. Maybe should have made this clearer. Obviously if anyone has multiple sources then a preamp is necessary.
 
Even digital only systems will benefit from an active Preamp , much better jump drive and tone after Gain matching ..!



Regards
 
Even digital only systems will benefit from an active Preamp , much better jump drive and tone after Gain matching ..!



Regards

Word. 100% correct. The difference (with my repaired power supply) is a no brainer. But would *love* to compare the Pandora against the MSB Reference pre-amp.
 
Sure. Am 100% digital. Maybe should have made this clearer. Obviously if anyone has multiple sources then a preamp is necessary.

Something to consider would be using the Premier DAC direct into a MSB 202 amp. Jeff Fritz (Soundstage Ultra) was amazed by the synergy of this combo in an all-digital system. Logistics might make a comparison difficult for you :skeptical:
 
Something to consider would be using the Premier DAC direct into a MSB 202 amp. Jeff Fritz (Soundstage Ultra) was amazed by the synergy of this combo in an all-digital system. Logistics might make a comparison difficult for you :skeptical:

Agreed. The MSB DAC’s into the MSB amps is a perfect synergy. Otherwise, I tend to like a preamp.


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Don’t want to bang on too much about this. But the repaired Pandora is delivering around 40% (yes, that much) improvement in dynamics, speed, punch and soundstage. All top end and midrange. Not bass, interestingly. Feels like I have a brand new soundsystem and for the first time it *really* feels that my S3 Mk2 (as good as they are) are the limiting factor. Before, it was all hypotheticals.
 
Something to consider would be using the Premier DAC direct into a MSB 202 amp. Jeff Fritz (Soundstage Ultra) was amazed by the synergy of this combo in an all-digital system. Logistics might make a comparison difficult for you :skeptical:

Thanks. Thought about this a while back - but no way am I replacing my Antileon Evo. Would rather replace electronics upstream of it. Thought I had found a simple solution: sell the Pandora pre and upgrade my MSB Premier to a Reference and use the Reference’s pre-amp. Unfortunately no silver bullet! Back to focusing on a speaker upgrade and maybe a DAC clock upgrade to tide me over in the short term. After all that, will consider a DAC upgrade
 
actually when you get to the MSB Reference level or better the Preamp is analog with an analog volume control . You can use either digital or analog inputs and it's amazing. As Alpinist ditched his extremal preamp so did I once I moved from the Premier Dac to the Reference. A home demo is all it would take for confirmation. I thought my system was dead quiet but until I removed the external preamp I didn't know what quiet was.

I was responding to a previous post and thought I hit "Reply" so this is out of place but the sentiment remains the same.
 
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