The MSB Premier review I didn't write

Thanks for the teaser, Bill :)

I heard the top of the line Esoteric SACD player on Rockports a few weeks ago and couldn't understand the hub bub. Relatively dry and dead sounding digital. Until we switched to analog I was disappointed. I also heard the new dCS Bartok a few weeks prior and the system sounded "digital."

I continue to think most of the other dacs I hear sound like "good digital" with MSB the only one that gives the best of analog and digital.
 
Billt1 said:
When I acquired the MSB Premier with second power supply and renderer V2 it was at the top of my comfort level for expense. One of the things that really appealed to me besides it's amazing sound was the opportunity for easy upgrade. I figured over the next year or so I would invest in those upgrades. Well the cost /benefit of those upgrades as well as working with my dealer for home demo has really accelerated the acquisition . I have been asked to provide A vs B vs B Vs C vs A on Femto 93 clock / Powerbase impressions for those who want to know what to upgrade first . I will follow up with that at a later date but for now I will leave a brief description of my experience as I installed first the clock then added the powerbase a few days later.
Buying the MSB Premier was like acquiring a thoroughbred race horse . Changing the clock was like adding a golden saddle. Adding the powerbase was like putting firecrackers in its ass.
To slightly expand, the clock added smoothness ( hard to believe it was going to get much better than the stock clock) and the the powerbase provided incredible attack and speed. Yes I will at a later date satisfy those wanting to know the A's vs the B's but for the next week I am only going to enjoy what I am hearing.
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Thanks for the write up Bill.


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KeithR said:
Thanks for the teaser, Bill :)

I heard the top of the line Esoteric SACD player on Rockports a few weeks ago and couldn't understand the hub bub. Relatively dry and dead sounding digital. Until we switched to analog I was disappointed. I also heard the new dCS Bartok a few weeks prior and the system sounded "digital."

I continue to think most of the other dacs I hear sound like "good digital" with MSB the only one that gives the best of analog and digital.
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Agreed.


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Billt1 -

Your quote of...

“Adding the powerbase was like putting firecrackers in its ass.”

is one of the funniest and most telling lines I’ve come across in audio. A good one!
 
I mean no insult to any other DAC or system " As I continue to listen and try to come up explanations for what I am hearing it’s like all my previous digital systems as good as some of them were, were just wrong."

As I write this I know it sounds insulting , it's not meant to be. It's just my experience in my systems your results may vary but oh boy am I happy.
 
The MSB trail is like the Matrix, lefty or righty, which rabbit hole??? The most worst thing about it..... , they all sound good, bastards!!!
 
Billt1 said:
I mean no insult to any other DAC or system " As I continue to listen and try to come up explanations for what I am hearing it’s like all my previous digital systems as good as some of them were, were just wrong."

As I write this I know it sounds insulting , it's not meant to be. It's just my experience in my systems your results may vary but oh boy am I happy.
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What exactly is just wrong with all the other digital? Such a strong statement of yours requires clarification.
 
Billt1 said:
In a separate room:
attachment.php

SME 20/3 with SME V tonearm, Dynavector te kaitora rua , Sutherland prototype current gain ( now called phonoloco) phono stage, T+A HV3000PA integrated , Vienna Acoustic List speakers , Audience SX cabling and conditioning , many tweeks
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Bill,

I don't like to comment on people's rooms, but I really like what I see in that picture. If a picture speaks a thousand words I bet it sounds awesome. Not familiar with the equipment but the setup looks great. Congrats.

I also love that there is no coffee table in front of your chair and the perspective from your chair seems to indicate the "right" height of the chair back.

Howie
 
Al M. said:
What exactly is just wrong with all the other digital? Such a strong statement of yours requires clarification.
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I realize it was a strong statement. I have spoke to this many times now that MSB has changed my listening habits. I have been in this hobby for 40 years, traveled across the country and abroad attending many audio shows per year, visit high end audio shops 3 times a month and read every major audio publication all in an effort to understand and have a base line reference for what I am doing. I can only speak to my own experience with the products that I have owned. Many digital front ends I have owned have been spectacular, articulate, highly resolving and sometimes almost startling. That being said , unlike my analog system in another room , there has always been an underlining limit to the amount of time I would listen , usually about 30 minutes. It never was that apparent to me until it changed after acquiring the Premier . My listening secession went from 30 minutes to hours and hasn't changed for months. Even though previously my system was pretty good I was always on the hunt, how can I make this better? There is going to be a cable, conditioner, powercord, amp or something to bring me to the next step. The MSB DAC revolutionized my digital listening habits to the extent I do not dare to even breathe on my system, at least for now. My statements are meant to bring no disrespect to any other quality product only an offering of my personal experience .
 
Billt1 said:
I realize it was a strong statement. I have spoke to this many times now that MSB has changed my listening habits. I have been in this hobby for 40 years, traveled across the country and abroad attending many audio shows per year, visit high end audio shops 3 times a month and read every major audio publication all in an effort to understand and have a base line reference for what I am doing. I can only speak to my own experience with the products that I have owned. Many digital front ends I have owned have been spectacular, articulate, highly resolving and sometimes almost startling. That being said , unlike my analog system in another room , there has always been an underlining limit to the amount of time I would listen , usually about 30 minutes. It never was that apparent to me until it changed after acquiring the Premier . My listening secession went from 30 minutes to hours and hasn't changed for months. Even though previously my system was pretty good I was always on the hunt, how can I make this better? There is going to be a cable, conditioner, powercord, amp or something to bring me to the next step. The MSB DAC revolutionized my digital listening habits to the extent I do not dare to even breathe on my system, at least for now. My statements are meant to bring no disrespect to any other quality product only an offering of my personal experience .
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Thanks, but you are essentially only restating what you said in your opening post. Let me ask differently: which sonic attributes allow you to listen for much longer than with your previous digital? What was 'wrong' with your previous digital that prevented long listening sessions? Does the MSB digital sound more 'analog' to allow for longer listening sessions, and if so, how would you characterize that 'analog' sound?

Please note that I don't have the same problems of not being able to listen to digital for a long time: digital is my only source, and I love it, for hours on end. So you have to help me out a bit here.

Thanks
Al
 
Al,
I have a fairly highly resolving analog rig in another room I can and want to listen to for hours . Many of my digital systems have been more detailed and dynamic than the analog rig but I would have to say it was the digital edge that after a period of time made me want to move away. I now have all the detail and dynamics ( and more) without the edge. Any other descriptions I could add only sound cliche
Bill
 
Billt1 said:
Al,
I have a fairly highly resolving analog rig in another room I can and want to listen to for hours . Many of my digital systems have been more detailed and dynamic than the analog rig but I would have to say it was the digital edge that after a period of time made me want to move away. I now have all the detail and dynamics ( and more) without the edge. Any other descriptions I could add only sound cliche
Bill
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Thanks. What is 'digital edge'?
 
it sounds absolutely crazy to describe something as digital edge or to make these types of claims about digital since "_all_ dacs do is _just_ convert the 1's and 0's to analog" but Mike is spot on about this. i personally believe there is no such thing as too much detail to too much transient attack and speed, the problem occurs when those attributes are not well balanced with tone. so you end up getting this highly detailed and fast sound which is great at first - airy and revealing...but an hour or more into a session you start noticing that a voice sounds a bit glassy , a violin sounds sharp - unnaturally sharp, a cello has the low end attack but is missing that meaty quality. the best way i can describe it is increasing the sharpness, contrast, and brightness on a tv - you can see the differences and the brilliance of the screen but once you notice that grass doesnt look that green in real life or snow doesn't look that white, the illusion crumbles and you notice how strained your eyes feel.
 
The key is also to have a base line. For me, I use the Kronos Pro and Studer 810. When I had the MSB home, I was comparing it to my vinyl rig. I kept thinking, “it doesn’t sound like vinyl.”

It wasn’t until I fired up the Studer (with Doshi 3.0 tape preamp) where I could find an equal competitor. When I went back and forth with so many tapes, even comparing to the red book, I said to myself “that’s it, that’s what the MSB sounds like.”

You can listen to a good R2R setup for hours and you can listen to the MSB for hours.


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Mike said:
It’s bite, excess sibilance, a tipped up sound and very processed sounding - not natural - resulting in digititus.



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Ok, but to avoid that I don't need an MSB. My Yggdrasil DAC suffices for a natural sound. Some residual digital edge that I heard until recently was taken out by ceiling diffusers in my listening room. But that's acoustics, not electronics. Even an MSB Select II with two power bases would not have solved that issue.

It seems to me that often the 'problems' with digital have a source other than the digital itself. Digital, unless it is voiced to be mellow, just ruthlessly reveals the problems elsewhere in system and room, perhaps more so than a lot of analog set-ups do. Not that 'digititis' from digital itself does not exist -- it does. My previous DACs had some, compared to the Yggdrasil. But even then, the digital-inherent digititis was mostly less than the 'digititis' coming from other problems that I solved over the years.
 
Al M. said:
Ok, but to avoid that I don't need an MSB. My Yggdrasil DAC suffices for a natural sound. Some residual digital edge that I heard until recently was taken out by ceiling diffusers in my listening room. But that's acoustics, not electronics. Even an MSB Select II with two power bases would not have solved that issue.
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don't disagree with you here. i have an older dac, a chord qbd76hdsd being fed by usb from laptop. digital has come a long way and 100% of listening is digital so i figured i'd try a top tier dac to see what i can discern. specifically, i got a rockna wavedream signature on the way and i'll see how that compares to the chord. the chord was a big step up from my previous dac, a fostex hpa8 - which is still an excellent dac for most entry level systems.

while i agree that room acoustics may be leading to digital edge and i agree that an msb stack or any dac made of femtounobtanium is not going to fix that, i posit that not all dacs will let out the same noise that results in those interactions. i'm thinking of it like this - if you put a big speaker in a little room you'll get tons of port resonance and all sorts of bass issues regardless of this speaker's price. if you take a speaker of similar dimensions but it's sealed you probably won't have the same issue because they play differently. my assumption - and i can only test this through trying some different pieces is that the biggest difference i'm going to hear between dacs is the powersupply and output stage. i might get more resolution too as the rockna is much newer compared to chord (keep in mind that this was a chord flagship before the dave - but technology continues to march forward). my rambling, meandering, and possibly incorrect point is that since every piece of gear has it's own sound signature, some signatures will probably play better in one room vs. another.

any more details on various dacs you tried when deciding on a yggdrasil and the differences you found would be great to read (the yggdrasil was high on my list but i opted for the rockna due to a rec from a friend who's ears and taste are similar to mine)
 
Al M. said:
Please note that I don't have the same problems of not being able to listen to digital for a long time: digital is my only source, and I love it, for hours on end. So you have to help me out a bit here.

Thanks
Al
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You don't know what you don't know.
 
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