The King of Tubes Returns - WE300b

The big question is can they build them at the same quality as their original 300B’s. Not as easy a task as one would think.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
The big question is can they build them at the same quality as their original 300B’s. Not as easy a task as one would think.

Ken
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I would guess actually easily, as production technology has advanced so much even in the past 20 years.

Another question is whether they will achieve the same sound quality if trying to automate things that are better done manually.


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Kuoppis said:
I would guess actually easily, as production technology has advanced so much even in the past 20 years.

Another question is whether they will achieve the same sound quality if trying to automate things that are better done manually.


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You would guess wrong. Anytime a production line is shut down, there are always problems bringing it back up-and that is in the same factory. Key workers move to other jobs and tribal knowledge is lost. People who haven't spent much time around manufacturing/overhaul/repair facilities have no idea of what life is really like on the shop floor. Procedures for performing work steps are never totally complete because there are always little steps that happen outside of the procedure through experience by the workers and all of this info is never captured completely.

The advantage of WE is they still retained all of their drawings and machinery the last time they put the WE back into production, but it damn sure didn't happen easily. And now the production is being moved to yet again another state which is a further complication. What happened to all of the employees who were involved in the last production run of the WE 300Bs? Any of them moving to GA to help restart production or are they starting from scratch and training a new batch of employees?

My point here is don't think this is a slam dunk that it will be easy to bring this tube back into production. It will take time to train everyone and iron out all of the issues that will arise until they can start consistently turning out quality tubes.
 
Mike said:
What if they’re better?
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Then everybody wins! :D

I wasn’t trying to be a killjoy. I was actually thinking about some of the same issues that Mep mentioned in his post. The design, materials and expertise of the workers that built the original WE 300B’s were a big reason for their success. Pardon the pun but I hope they can catch lightning in a bottle again!

Best,
Ken
 
Alpinist said:
Then everybody wins! :D

I wasn’t trying to be a killjoy. I was actually thinking about some of the same issues that Mep mentioned in his post. The design as well as the expertise of the workers that built the original WE 300B’s were a big reason for their success. Pardon the pun but I hope they can catch lightning in a bottle again!

Best,
Ken
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except the speculators/hoarders!
 
mep said:
You would guess wrong. Anytime a production line is shut down, there are always problems bringing it back up-and that is in the same factory. Key workers move to other jobs and tribal knowledge is lost. People who haven't spent much time around manufacturing/overhaul/repair facilities have no idea of what life is really like on the shop floor. Procedures for performing work steps are never totally complete because there are always little steps that happen outside of the procedure through experience by the workers and all of this info is never captured completely.

The advantage of WE is they still retained all of their drawings and machinery the last time they put the WE back into production, but it damn sure didn't happen easily. And now the production is being moved to yet again another state which is a further complication. What happened to all of the employees who were involved in the last production run of the WE 300Bs? Any of them moving to GA to help restart production or are they starting from scratch and training a new batch of employees?

My point here is don't think this is a slam dunk that it will be easy to bring this tube back into production. It will take time to train everyone and iron out all of the issues that will arise until they can start consistently turning out quality tubes.
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I seriously doubt they will set up the production exactly as it was. Which brings us back to my earlier point.


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Even before considering the difficulty in reorganizing a skilled production group and training new people, reassembling the machines and support infrastructure, there is the difficult task of recreating the specific chemical and mineral compositions required for the cathode, anode, and grid. Those metallurgy recipes aren't created overnight, and once fully developed, refined, and implemented, the metallurgy recipes are closely guarded trade secrets. A truly authentic rebirth of the original Western Electric 300B vacuum tube is a daunting task. There is much more to a final WE 300B product release than reassembling production machines, introducing modern automation, and finding skilled dedicated people to operate them while training newcomers. It is no wonder the various iterations of the 300B brought to market fail to be like examples of each other. Time will tell if the newest attempt to resurrect the revered Western Electric 300B will yield positive results worth their asking price, and even more important, will performance be on par with the originals.
 
Guys, my contact at WE says they’ve been preparing for this for over three years.


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Mike said:
Guys, my contact at WE says they’ve been preparing for this for over three years.

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Kind of proves Dan’s point, doesn’t it? It’s more complex than mere production.

I was however referring to manufacturing methods only, as I am a bit familiar with those.

But so, if they have newer methods and the old skills and recipes, maybe we will see a positive surprise [emoji3].


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Kuoppis said:
I seriously doubt they will set up the production exactly as it was. Which brings us back to my earlier point.


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The validity of your earlier point is still bogus. It will be even harder to start up production in a new plant in a different state than if they just shut the production line down in the last place they manufactured them. You seem to be missing the main point that this won't be easy.
 
mep said:
The validity of your earlier point is still bogus. It will be even harder to start up production in a new plant in a different state than if they just shut the production line down in the last place they manufactured them. You seem to be missing the main point that this won't be easy.
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Hi Mep,

You are obviously very knowledgeable and make some excellent points in your posts but do you have to deliver them so heavy handedly?

Ken
 
given what i saw in this video, the manufacturing facilities look top notch and i would be surprised if they are not able to produce a high quality product. it may not sound exactly like the original but it will most likely sound as good a any modern production 300B.

in terms of the metallurgy, the press release said they are able to utilize legacy materials: "the core material, the so-called “secret sauce” embedded in each cathode is derived from an original Hawthorne Works 1963 melt."

in any event, looks like they are going to have to sell a lot of tubes and amps to turn a profit and eventually recoup the investment.

i wish them well and hope they succeed.
 
Alpinist said:
Hi Mep,

You are obviously very knowledgeable and make some excellent points in your posts but do you have to deliver them so heavy handedly?

Ken
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When you are dealing with someone who is never wrong and when things aren't going their way in a thread they resort to talking about your mother, I don't think I was heavy handed at all.
 
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