The (good) old CD player

Not sure if that was a off the cuff ‘cheap shot’ (2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment :D) aimed at me Bob? Hopefully not. Forums are about people, experiences, opinions and yes the occasional act of “mental gymnastics”. I’ve shared an experience – if you read carefully – of a couple of folks that were disappointed going down the server / streamer pathway and resolved that for Red Book they achieved better quality spinning a disc in their CDP’s. That experience sits comfortably with my own observations when ripped CD’s are replayed via various hardware and software to the DAC on my K-03 player. I’ve suggested that one possible conclusion of these experiences may be whilst reference music servers and streamers are less expensive then reference CD players – they don’t sound better for Red Book – yet. Why would that bug you?

I’ve often pondered the question that Mike raised at the outset, have we ever stopped to think about what "computer audio" really means? Did we completely miss the KISS principle when it comes to digital? What reasons might exist to explain why Mike, myself and others mentioned above noticed music playing with greater ease and quieter backgrounds via a transport? Do you have any considered thoughts on that?

Ralph,

First question, have you personally streamed Tidal through a good Dac in your personal, well known system? If yes, please share your experience. I am only sharing my personal experience which is only what I can be sure about. Not what "others" have done or prefer.

I can bring up stories from 20+ people that would choose streaming Tidal over playing Cd's, as well as 20+ audiophiles that prefer spinning cd's over streaming Tidal. For the people that prefer streaming Tidal and enjoy music better that is the way that is the best way for them and visa versa.

What bugs me is not you personally, but anyone that states that because "someone else" did something or a "friend of a friend" did something that it makes it better. It's interesting to me if someone has personally experienced something and then concludes that in their comparisons it worked out better for them.

Sorry, I just can't subscribe to something is "better" as Bud/Blue Fox states there are too many variables to make any definitive statements. And it's all subjective anyway.

I don't have any real thoughts on any comparisons between transports, digital servers, vinyl or R2R. My own experience is that they all sound great to me. Sometimes my listening mood dictates which I prefer to listen to, but I don't think one is better than the other. Each source is a little different, but whichever source I choose to listen to usually sounds pretty good to me.

Back to Mike's original question, again for me personally, CDP's are not "more simple" to use vs. picking up my Ipad and hitting play on the Aurender. Both CDP's and servers or depending on my mood, putting on a tape or vinyl seem just as simple. The backgrounds on all of the mentioned sources are plenty black and have a natural flow, cd's don't sound any better to me than the digital audio/server set up. Again, nothing more than my personal experiences and observations.
 
As a rather new comer jumping back into this amazing hobby I find the industry has changed considerably. And I also believe it is a tremendous amount of personal preferences. I also greatly appreciate the wonderful input and feedback from others "opinions". It has helped greatly in learning/re-learning all of the changes in this world. And or course, the end result for any one of us is to enjoy the music :)....

With all of this said, it does seem to me that many times we all over complicate things. The routers and NAS and switches, etc., etc. for the average person makes this a very steep mountain to climb. As a computer guy I truly have no problem with understanding this end of the business, but then it comes down to what matters more to me. Yes I went the route of ripping all my music and playing exclusively from a computer. I actually thought this was going to be my way moving forward getting back into this audio world. But the more I went that route I found I did not enjoy much of the music as I thought I would.

I also find the extra complexity of the gear does not add to the enjoyment. For example, storing all of my music on a NAS and streaming it to my system I found not to my liking. I prefer to use the NAS as a backup storage system. The same with streaming, I have never gained a liking for it.

I do enjoy having a music server hooked to my system (my server is a highly modified custom PC that is dedicated to being a Roon headless server), and using Roon to control the server is very nice. However I have found that I enjoy spinning disks. The convenience, the feel of putting the disk in the player and pushing the play button is something that appeals to me. I have actually found that I enjoy playing my Redbooks from the spinner much more than ripped versions through the music server. Therefore I keep only downloaded high rez files on the server and use the spinner for SA-CDs and Redbooks.

One thing that I have found is I do not enjoy the inconvenience of having an external DAC. Having to set each component for which music source I am listening to. For example, to listen to SA-CDs I set the correct input on the pre-amplifier, no worries, easy; but to listen to the music server I have to select a different input (again easy), but make sure that the DAC is set to USB input. For Redbooks again, set the Pre-amp to the DAC input, but then set the DAC to Coax 1.

I have seriously considered getting a pre-amplifier with everything built in so that I can simply select the input for whichever of the three sources I am listening to. It just seems more straight forward. The SST Thoebe II or McIntosh C47 seem to be the two top contenders to me (any thoughts?).

For a brief moment I considered getting back into vinyl but then I recalled the efforts that I used to go through to keep the albums in top shape. The cleaners, brushes, stylus cleaners, etc., etc. I even had an original VPI cleaning machine back in the day. But the more I thought on it, and researched all of these accessories I came to a solid conclusion. At this point I do not want to do that again, not to say I would not in the future.
 
As a rather new comer jumping back into this amazing hobby I find the industry has changed considerably. And I also believe it is a tremendous amount of personal preferences. I also greatly appreciate the wonderful input and feedback from others "opinions". It has helped greatly in learning/re-learning all of the changes in this world. And or course, the end result for any one of us is to enjoy the music :)....

With all of this said, it does seem to me that many times we all over complicate things. The routers and NAS and switches, etc., etc. for the average person makes this a very steep mountain to climb. As a computer guy I truly have no problem with understanding this end of the business, but then it comes down to what matters more to me. Yes I went the route of ripping all my music and playing exclusively from a computer. I actually thought this was going to be my way moving forward getting back into this audio world. But the more I went that route I found I did not enjoy much of the music as I thought I would.

I also find the extra complexity of the gear does not add to the enjoyment. For example, storing all of my music on a NAS and streaming it to my system I found not to my liking. I prefer to use the NAS as a backup storage system. The same with streaming, I have never gained a liking for it.

I do enjoy having a music server hooked to my system (my server is a highly modified custom PC that is dedicated to being a Roon headless server), and using Roon to control the server is very nice. However I have found that I enjoy spinning disks. The convenience, the feel of putting the disk in the player and pushing the play button is something that appeals to me. I have actually found that I enjoy playing my Redbooks from the spinner much more than ripped versions through the music server. Therefore I keep only downloaded high rez files on the server and use the spinner for SA-CDs and Redbooks.

One thing that I have found is I do not enjoy the inconvenience of having an external DAC. Having to set each component for which music source I am listening to. For example, to listen to SA-CDs I set the correct input on the pre-amplifier, no worries, easy; but to listen to the music server I have to select a different input (again easy), but make sure that the DAC is set to USB input. For Redbooks again, set the Pre-amp to the DAC input, but then set the DAC to Coax 1.

I have seriously considered getting a pre-amplifier with everything built in so that I can simply select the input for whichever of the three sources I am listening to. It just seems more straight forward. The SST Thoebe II or McIntosh C47 seem to be the two top contenders to me (any thoughts?).

For a brief moment I considered getting back into vinyl but then I recalled the efforts that I used to go through to keep the albums in top shape. The cleaners, brushes, stylus cleaners, etc., etc. I even had an original VPI cleaning machine back in the day. But the more I thought on it, and researched all of these accessories I came to a solid conclusion. At this point I do not want to do that again, not to say I would not in the future.

Hey Randy,

Thx for sharing your experiences and your interesting journey. I agree about the over complexity of equipment does not add to musical enjoyment. Again, your experiences of "coming back into audio" are very interesting....thx for sharing!
 
Thank you sir.... thought you might find this interesting.... here is a photo from back in the day.... when taking care of our precious vinyl was everything :)...
 
Note: To my knowledge internet streaming "lossless-quality" music is not necessarily always "bitperfect" equivalent to rips from corresponding CD due to audible watermark and loudness issues (at least on some albums). The problem comes from the source of the music, not the internet streaming music service providers.

Therefore I was specific about CD rips instead of something else.
 
As we enjoy our SOTA streamers, DAC's and network music players, what does this mean for the future of the old CD player?

Have we traded convenience for sonics or are we enjoying better sonics today with the added benefit of convenience?

Are CD players generational? Is there just a certain younger demographic who's ripping CD's or is everyone doing it?

(Side note: I have found a lot of my older....uhh...experienced clients are using CD's and have no interest in ripping)....

Thoughts?

I imagine that it's not only generational but driven by listening style too. I enjoy listening to an album (which I imagine is common with classical music listeners), and not a play list, so I prefer spinning. Anything I want to hear I own, so see little value in streaming. I want to rip my library in order to reduce risk of damage to no-longer-available favorite CDs, but am not eager to undertake that very time-consuming task, especially as the technology seems to be actively evolving.
 
In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
origine-s1-neodio-1-1030x618.jpg
 
This whole what sounds better, the CD player or the server, is mostly which has the better DAC, and analog output stage. The cables used on each piece of gear will also affect the sound one way or the other to some degree. It is not a simple A/B comparison.

Big +1. I feel my Esoteric K-01X transport is on a par with the best music servers. As Bud said, the DAC and analog output stage are the biggest determinants of sound in my opinion too.

Ken
 
In a few weeks I'm going to hear if a CD Player sounds better than my Music server

My client bought a Neodio Origine ( 35,000 Euros)

Is insane to paid that Much for only a CD player, right ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it is insane if you look how it is built inside. I really have trouble seeing a 35k eur worth of CDP inside:

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Or you could get the Vitus SCD025 cdp/dac for $13K less:cool:
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I'm sure the Neodio sounds wonderful, but $35K for, like Mike said, no usb or DSD and what Adam illustrated with the "inside view" just doesn't add up. I have heard that in other parts of the globe the Neodio is highly regarded for cd playback.

Nelson, let us know how it sounds once you hear your customer's Neodio, once it arrives and breaks in.

It get's worse, I thought it was $35K usd, it's Euros so almost $40K usd, almost twice the cost of a Vitus SCD025 or multiples of MANY other very good sounding cdp's.
 
....It get's worse, I thought it was $35K usd, it's Euros so almost $40K usd, almost twice the cost of a Vitus SCD025 or multiples of MANY other very good sounding cdp's.

'worse' is a relative term. Personally, I'm grateful for a free market environment where one may choose to spend how much they want on what they want, regardless of judgment by others.
 
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