The Digital Promised Land-DSD

Also this looks interesting..

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The latest Bruce Springsteen archival release (1984-08-05 Meadowlands) is being released in both 24/192 and 1x DSD, presumably from separate transfers and therefore perhaps also separate masterings, although that is a bit unclear at present. If so, it would make comparison difficult, but regardless this is interesting news on the DSD front, I suspect the most major release of a dedicated DSD download.
 
o0OBillO0o said:
I do- I see people running, walking, and working to music everyday. TV is for the over 40 crowd and stay at home spouses/partners. again- these are my own anecdotes.
Click to expand...

I have no dog in this one because I would not know the differences as I have no opportunity of comparing them. That said though I would readily welcome and take advantage of any chance to do that experience, just for giggles if nothing else.
As a non-audiophile myself, I average about maybe 6 hours of TV per week, so I may be an exception. Those folks you refer to Bill are doing all that to music, but they are not listening to music and much of the time, kind of ignoring it. It's just background noise to them. Much of it is also likely to be MP3 or FM radio or even poorly done CDs. I also agree with Fremer about how our brains react to poor sound quality and am personally familiar with the experience as many others are, they just don't realize it.........yet.
 
rbbert said:
The latest Bruce Springsteen archival release (1984-08-05 Meadowlands) is being released in both 24/192 and 1x DSD, presumably from separate transfers and therefore perhaps also separate masterings, although that is a bit unclear at present. If so, it would make comparison difficult, but regardless this is interesting news on the DSD front, I suspect the most major release of a dedicated DSD download.
Click to expand...

Wow- very cool. This is starting to look like DSD is picking up, mostly based on consumer demand?


MusicDirector said:
I have no dog in this one because I would not know the differences as I have no opportunity of comparing them. That said though I would readily welcome and take advantage of any chance to do that experience, just for giggles if nothing else.
As a non-audiophile myself, I average about maybe 6 hours of TV per week, so I may be an exception. Those folks you refer to Bill are doing all that to music, but they are not listening to music and much of the time, kind of ignoring it. It's just background noise to them. Much of it is also likely to be MP3 or FM radio or even poorly done CDs. I also agree with Fremer about how our brains react to poor sound quality and am personally familiar with the experience as many others are, they just don't realize it.........yet.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree with you. I do it all. I listen to music, I just sit there on the couch or chair and soak it in for hours. I also run, drive, hike and work to music. I listen to FM Radio, MP3s, CDs ripped to my music library, SACDs, 24bitPCM, 1xDSD, and Vinyl Records. Whatever can do, I always find a way to sneak in music. I even went down to the supply office at work the other day because the crappy Harman Kardon speakers that came with the Office died. I got a shiny new pair of, "branded", Altec Lansing desktop speakers. I love music and I am right there with you!
 
o0OBillO0o said:
Wow- very cool. This is starting to look like DSD is picking up, mostly based on consumer demand?




I do not disagree with you. I do it all. I listen to music, I just sit there on the couch or chair and soak it in for hours. I also run, drive, hike and work to music. I listen to FM Radio, MP3s, CDs ripped to my music library, SACDs, 24bitPCM, 1xDSD, and Vinyl Records. Whatever can do, I always find a way to sneak in music. I even went down to the supply office at work the other day because the crappy Harman Kardon speakers that came with the Office died. I got a shiny new pair of, "branded", Altec Lansing desktop speakers. I love music and I am right there with you!
Click to expand...

Not a damn thing wrong with having music going while doing other things, I do that often. I was just pointing out that when doing so your not really paying attention at the time. I'm also only saying that if that is the only way folks are using music, they are not going to care about sound quality much at all. However, someday with any of this or other formats or what have you to come, there will be a change that some folks may notice and come to a realization about what they have been hearing. Then they will want to know more and want more.
That even happens now with what we have (vinyl, a few well produced CDs, good lossless, etc), one person at a time and that's a good thing. I think the first challenge is just getting MR. & Mrs. Public to sit and listen to music period for at least 5 minutes.
 
Another Quad DSD capable DAC (though of course the little iFi DSD DAC can do up to 8X DSD).

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - May 14, 2015

MOON by Simaudio proudly introduces the MOON 780D Digital-to-Analog Converter
with network player, the newest addition to our flagship MOON Evolution Series.

The MOON 780D is the most life-like sounding and technologically advanced digital audio
product that we have ever created. This achievement is realized through the use of a fully
balanced differential, dual-mono design using two DAC chips, each with 16 unique DAC circuits,
that can decode virtually all digital audio formats (up to DSD quad and PCM 32-bit/384kHz).
The heir apparent to the world-class MOON 750D, the new 780D will unleash dynamics and
detail that you never thought existed in your digital audio files.

Amongst the various digital inputs is our MiND (MOON intelligent Network Device) network
player that allows for DSD streaming over ethernet, and access to the TIDAL music service;
a gateway to the largest online library of uncompressed music. Other internal features include
our MOON Hybrid Power (MHP); a new, ultra-high performance universal power supply and a
modular design to help make this revolutionary DAC as future-proof as possible.
Like all Evolution products, the 780D’s chassis is made of aircraft-grade aluminum, with careful
attention paid to minimizing vibrations. Of course, all the signature features you expect in a
MOON Evolution series product are present: SimLink™, i2DCf and M-LoVo, to name a few, as
well as control ports for custom install environments.
MOON 780D Significant Design Features:
● Nine (9) digital inputs include USB (for Hi-res audio), AES/EBU, SPDIF, Optical, aptX® Bluetooth®, Ethernet and Wi-Fi.
● MHP (Moon Hybrid Power) is a “High Performance Universal Power Supply” using conductive polymer capacitors, high speed digital
switching and analog linear regulators post stages (non-switch mode) for ultra stable and exceptionally low noise DC output.
● Femto second (vs pico second) clock resulting in much lower jitter and consequently lower distortion
● Twelve stages of DC voltage regulation which includes two stages of M-LoVo (MOON Low Voltage Regulation) and four stages
of i2DCf (Independant Inductive DC Filtering).
● On-board programmable software for customization of the end-user interface
● Fully compatible with 820S external power supply
● SimLink™ controller port for 2-way communications between other MOON components, as well as external control ports for
custom install environments.

The MOON 780D will be available in Q3 2015 with an MSRP of $15,000.00 USD









Full press release: http://www.simaudio.com/DATA/MEDIA/71_en~v~product-launch-780d-dsd-digital-to-analog-converter.pdf

Full product details: High-end Digital-to-Analog Converter - Digital to Analog Converter| Simaudio
 
I have ordered the following iFi products for an office system. Of course I will interchange the DACs in my main rig as I play around with iFi. The tech/price proposition on top of Michael Fremer's positive remarks on the iTube Micro was compelling enough for me to give iFi a go.

1. iFi iDSD Nano + Mercury USB cable + iPurifier
2. IFi iDSD Micro + iUSB Micro + Gemini Cable + iTube Micro + iRack
3. Another iPurifer for McIntosh MCD1100 and WW Platinum USB.

This will give me a digital feel headed by a Microsoft a Surface 3 & 4 (when released) along with a custom CAPs powered with a HDPlex linear PSU. By this time next year, I will probably know where I will want to go with digital. I still question whether 2-ch DACs over $10k will be sustainable longer term as the technology continues to rapidly evolve...

Interestingly, iFi have developed a product called iPower (not available in Australia yet) which is a redesigned switchmode Wall-wart claiming to be quieter than linear PSUs and even battery. Promising enough to swap out all household warts perhaps.
 
Interesting about the Springsteen release. I hope it does indicate that DSD is picking up. I have some doubts that this will ever catch on, though, unless it eventually becomes streamable. I realize that downloads still account for the majority of digital "sales" but I wouldn't be surprised to see steaming take it over eventually. Like many, I'm tired of constantly buying multiple versions of the same album. At this point, My preference will be to stream from Tidal. Less fuss. No storage issues. No compatibility issues. And I don't have to worry about replacing my 8x dsd DAC for a 16x dac next year. When I want to own music, I'll get the vinyl.

Am I missing out on the dsd sq? Probably, but I'm enjoying a lot more music than I otherwise would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Steve said:
I have ordered the following iFi products for an office system. Of course I will interchange the DACs in my main rig as I play around with iFi. The tech/price proposition on top of Michael Fremer's positive remarks on the iTube Micro was compelling enough for me to give iFi a go.

1. iFi iDSD Nano + Mercury USB cable + iPurifier
2. IFi iDSD Micro + iUSB Micro + Gemini Cable + iTube Micro + iRack
3. Another iPurifer for McIntosh MCD1100 and WW Platinum USB.

This will give me a digital feel headed by a Microsoft a Surface 3 & 4 (when released) along with a custom CAPs powered with a HDPlex linear PSU. By this time next year, I will probably know where I will want to go with digital. I still question whether 2-ch DACs over $10k will be sustainable longer term as the technology continues to rapidly evolve...

Interestingly, iFi have developed a product called iPower (not available in Australia yet) which is a redesigned switchmode Wall-wart claiming to be quieter than linear PSUs and even battery. Promising enough to swap out all household warts perhaps.
Click to expand...
Good going.

iTube is reportedly GREAT. My pal has 2 iPhonos as well, becuase he said it was a steal at $400 and he got the 2nd before they came to their senses and raised prices. LoL

For the SurfPro, try to move to Win10 ASAP. Thank me later.

BTW, re the Dacs, maybe only the tube Dacs will be able to withstand the advancements, and maybe not even them, as iTube can do great stuff. Dacs are all about implementation, much more so than just parts and are really can be seen as modulated power supplies. Good power supplies are not cheap. I see the Schiit Yggsdrasil now use Choke regulation, something that Lukasz insisted on from the start.
 
I will coninue to watch the Big7/GG progress. If I get digitally bitten then there will be room in the main rig for a balanced Lampi.
 
kev313 said:
Interesting about the Springsteen release. I hope it does indicate that DSD is picking up. I have some doubts that this will ever catch on, though, unless it eventually becomes streamable. I realize that downloads still account for the majority of digital "sales" but I wouldn't be surprised to see steaming take it over eventually. Like many, I'm tired of constantly buying multiple versions of the same album. At this point, My preference will be to stream from Tidal. Less fuss. No storage issues. No compatibility issues. And I don't have to worry about replacing my 8x dsd DAC for a 16x dac next year. When I want to own music, I'll get the vinyl.

Am I missing out on the dsd sq? Probably, but I'm enjoying a lot more music than I otherwise would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Great comments.

Regarding the Springsteen release, it's not originally recorded to DSD. Its a very good analog to PCM/DSD transfer.

Tidal is a great start and owning Vinyl is always the best option for analog masters. Today,the music creation industry is based mostly on 24 Bit PCM (discrete) with many that still opt for analog tape (at best is a 12bit digital equivalent, but continuous). I want artist & engineers from the mainstream to put trust in thier investments and give an ALL DSD recording a try. Even if its delivered to iTunes as a dithered and compressed 320 Kbps AAC (PCM) file or transfered to a Vinyl Record as a final product.
 
Alrainbow said:
Having tested single double and quad it's exciting to know it's coming . And my lampi has been ready for it
Click to expand...

Double and Quad Rate DSD has arrived. Check out the Blue Coast, DSD File and Native DSD web sites for Double and Quad Rate DSD music downloads.
And there is even Binaural DSD for that HeadDAC of yours! Some fine listening.

Store | Blue Coast Records
DSD File | High Fidelity through DSD
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/double_dsd_music
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/quad_dsd_music
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/binaural_dsd_music
 
Thanks for the links

Dsd and the promise land.
I just watched the video very nice.
But I do see some holes and light at the end of the tunnel as well.
First off is dsd 256 really needed. I for one cannot hear it. Weather headphones nor speakers, and I am not claiming to be a specialist just an end user.
I have two devices that can play it.
One hole was recordings from analog tape can we even assume it's needed as dsd 64 from some tape is amazing
So my first question is of the recording is great do we still need it. Second of course is tape that is less then great is it worth the effort.
In the video it's quoted as not being able to tell the difference and I do think this can be possible but he is referring to opus 3. So I assume it's analog tape.
My own sampling was pure dsd not a transfer. Can it be that a tape is still better than a new pure dsd ? This is a question I would like an honest answer too. I do think tape is better than vinyl if all is the same. And this makes sense as it's not a few steps away from the master.
Then there is the method being used . In the video is a nice pro device how does it I code and decode ? For me a simple filter sounds best , but I have not heard all there is either nor am I a pro of any sorts.
I would like to read from end users and many others who have tried all formats of dsd and I think we should have a google drive share of a song for all of us to try out for our own two cents in.
The music should not just be simple but varying from simple to complexity.
As simple voice and one instrument always sounds better than complex in most cases.
Any one have any input to this type of crowd conception review. I for one am very tired of new and great being shown
And later disproved as not great at all.
Please do not take me as a skeptic I like the people in this video but still trust my own brain over all.
Al
 
bmoura said:
Double and Quad Rate DSD has arrived. Check out the Blue Coast, DSD File and Native DSD web sites for Double and Quad Rate DSD music downloads.
And there is even Binaural DSD for that HeadDAC of yours! Some fine listening.

Store | Blue Coast Records
DSD File | High Fidelity through DSD
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/double_dsd_music
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/quad_dsd_music
https://members.nativedsd.com/homepage/binaural_dsd_music
Click to expand...

DSD has arrived for whom? I checked out all of your links and there is not one title that interests me. I find purchasing music because of format rather than content makes no sense to me.
 
Digital creates a virtually perfect square wave and no one can really argue it's superiority from a quantitative measurable standpoint but it just doesn't do for me what analog does. I am convinced it has something to do with the time domain not measured traditionally. No matter how accurate the clocks get, the time domain is not as natural as analog and the brain evolved around hearing all things analog in nature. I am convinced this is also why vinyl derived from digital masters sounds superior to digital derived from digital masters to my ears.

Vinyl sourced from digital will have more distortion (having gone into and out of the digital domain) but still sounds better because it returns to its natural time domain (analog) via a mechanical musical instrument (the stylus) as opposed to trying to match it up in the digital word.

I believe this is also why the Lampi native DSD is the best sounding digital on the planet---it uses no clock (or converter) and effectively is very close to playing a continuos (read analog) signal (using only filters).

X = Time between Bit Samples (secs)
Y = Time per Bit Sample (secs)
S = Sample Rate (1/secs)

X = 1 - (Y*S)

Analog Equivalence of a Digital Signal = "AE" =1/X

Limit of AE as X approaches 0 = Infinity = 100% Analog

When you playback 256DSD on a Lampi X gets pretty darn close to zero. I am not sure how this concept can really be discussed regarding digital formats that use converters and is why the Lampi sound gets so close to analog. The time domain don't get as mucked up. That said, it still ain't analog.

Ok, now everyone stop laughing at me.
 
Paul, cool. I thought DSD is DAC benign, be it single, double or quad rate DSD- meaning the example DAC you mention is your opinion.

Further, plug in the sample rate for each DSD sample rate, ~2.8,5.6 &11.2, and give us a Y value so we can complete your calculations.
My opinion the result is not 100%, but very close. Analog is defined as analogous to the real thing, not Analog Tape/records.

For single rate (2,822,400 Hz):
In the graphic below there is a 1/42822400 s or 0.00000002335226 s, if that is sufficient for Y, then:
(please excuse my significant digits)

X = 1- (0.00000002335226 s * (2,822,400 samples /1 s))
X = 1- (0.065909)
X = 0.934091

I'm confused about the units? What is X's units if seconds is canceled out due to the seconds being in the numerator and denominator? You list X's units as seconds?

PCM_v_DSD_last_sharp-e1403099562269.jpg


(for double or quad multiply Y and S by 2 and 4, respectively.)

I'm pro DSD and pro PCM, But I really want better mixing and mastering. I also want honesty or transparency in provenance.

Pop/rock in Quad DSD should be excellent, as Rob Gordon, a Character in the book&movie, "High Fidelity " said, " Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listen to pop music? "

I'm watching for releases in Quad DSD,more reviews of the material, and more Quad rate DSD DACs.
 
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