The Audiohpile Ear

[mep]

Time flies when you're having fun!
Yes, I remember that event. As I said, nothing in common with mine.
Mine wasn't a test of "CD" vs "vinyl" versions of recordings. Mine was vinyl vs vinyl playing in real time. "Pure" vinyl analog vs itself, passed through a "CD" 16/44 ADA (the ADA could go to 24/96, but of course I understand the science, so no need).
If folks want to do it again, so that they can experience it for themselves, I'd be more than happy to oblige. It's loads of fun and laughter. Good times.

cheers,

AJ

You’re just full of fun and laughter. You even end every post with “cheers.” I thought that you and A.Wayne were going to do the challenge some time ago. What happened?

 

[mep]

You were there my friend and the look on your face when the vinyl spanked the digital was classic.


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AJ doesn’t want that challenge. He wants to run your vinyl through an ADC/DAC and see if you can tell the difference and hope you screw up so he can post the results on Youtube for fun and laughs.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I thought that you and A.Wayne were going to do the challenge some time ago. What happened?

He got too baked on Steve Gs stash to remember.
You up for the "challenge" Mark? You can easily hear vinyl from ADA looped vinyl, right? You trust your ears, or no?
I can arrange that for you, all in good fun. Ask any of the prior participants. What's the worse that could happen?

 

[AJ Soundfield]

AJ doesn’t want that challenge.

What challenge? Telling an LP release from a CD release? Only an audiophile would consider that a "challenge".
Btw, in my test, there no "hope" and "screw up". You either hear the difference between the vinyl and its "digitized" version, or you don't.
That's not "screwing up".
You seem very fearful and apprehensive of what should be quite easy for you.
Hmmm.

 

[mep]

He got too baked on Steve Gs stash to remember.
You up for the "challenge" Mark? You can easily hear vinyl from ADA looped vinyl, right? You trust your ears, or no?
I can arrange that for you, all in good fun. Ask any of the prior participants. What's the worse that could happen?

I have zero interest in your challenge. Check out my equipment list. I have analog and digital sources. If I want to listen to LPs, I listen to LPs. Same for digital. I’m not interested in hearing my LPs go through two unnecessary conversions for fun and laughs.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I have zero interest in your challenge.

The question was rhetorical.
You don't seem like a guy who laughs much anyhow.

I’m not interested in hearing my LPs go through two unnecessary conversions

You wouldn't. Hence the laughs.

I have heard relatively quiet vinyl playback. Actually sounds great with stuff like Elvis, etc, better than the digital release versions.

Hopefully you get why I'm not interested in your "challenge" either.

cheers,

AJ

 

[mep]

What challenge? Telling an LP release from a CD release? Only an audiophile would consider that a "challenge".
Btw, in my test, there no "hope" and "screw up". You either hear the difference between the vinyl and its "digitized" version, or you don't.
That's not "screwing up".
You seem very fearful and apprehensive of what should be quite easy for you.
Hmmm.

Umm, I’m talking about the shocked look on your face Mike said you had when the LP trounced the CD you guys listened to. You seem very fearful and apprehensive that LPs might sound better than CDs. I’ve never expressed any personal interest in participating in your experiment so the idea that I’m fearful or apprehensive of something I was never interested in is actually funny.

Since you love fun and laughs so much, I have a funny prediction for you. Since you always have to have the last word on every subject, I predict you will make a recording before you die and have it in your will that it will be played at your funeral after everyone else has spoken.

 

[jdandy]

I predict you will make a recording before you die and have it in your will that it will be played at your funeral after everyone else has spoken.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Umm, I’m talking about the shocked look on your face Mike said you had when the LP trounced the CD you guys listened to.

Ah, you mean the "Audacity" test Mike remembered so clearly.
We see your reading perception skills matches your hearing.
Yeah, I'd avoid listen skill tests too at all costs if I were you ;-). Understandable.

I’ve never expressed any personal interest in participating in your experiment

Yes, it requires real listening skills, not imaginary self proclaimed ones. We are in agreement.

My funeral???
Mark, we've met remember? You won't be around for it LOL

 

[Spock]

...reality is an illusion. Deep down inside, at the very core of our fundamental quantum existence are building blocks and particles that are “neither here nor there” but constantly blipping in and out of this realm and existence. Our brains are nothing more than quantum computers with electrical impulses running the show...

And yet we exist, in an analogue world. (unless you think we don´t). And we are ruled by analogue laws.

Saying so, let me put this questions just to try to understand your point:

- what system do you have? Please let us know.
- How do you make your choices? How do you avoid the perception mistakes?
- as you said before about your cables

Except that I found same level of nirvana with Transparent “the wave” speaker cables ($250) after comparing them directly since I had them in my closet. I’ve done many A/B tests and laughed in the end.

, could you say the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?

What your brain expects to hear can be as important as the sound itself.” Are our ears telling us what we hear? Or is it our brains? There’s a common term in psychology called, “the power of suggestion.”

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I'm not Serge, but here goes

- How do you make your choices?

Whatever pleases me most, audibly, visually, tactile, cost, energy efficiency, practicality, etc, etc...everything.

How do you avoid the perception mistakes?

I don't .
If I'm trying to determine something from the above very specific, like sound, I add controls to eliminate and/or account for variables as best I can.
Otherwise, I simply enjoy the experience. My nightly listening "music hours" aren't blind.
Btw, do you consider the folks in the wine blind test I linked, enjoying the more expensive wine more, making a "mistake"?
I don't view it that way at all.

cheers,

AJ

 

[Spock]

AJ


If you don´t mind, i´m gonna wait for the Octopus answers.


To you i have different questions (you should consider rhetorical).


- how are your sales?
- what brands have your produts replaced?
- how long, on average, do people listen to your systems in an audioshow? One music? Two? Lots of them go out when the music is still playing?


These are the questions you should answer to yourself. The answer to that questions will tell you if you´re wrong or wright in your audio approach.

Please don´t get me wrong

Cheers!

 

[AJ Soundfield]

- how are your sales?

I never have sales, though my speakers are always BOGO.
Just FYI, all the audio stuff is purely in my spare time.

- what brands have your produts replaced?

No idea, I've never asked.

- how long, on average, do people listen to your systems in an audioshow? One music? Two? Lots of them go out when the music is still playing?

Depends on size of show and how many rooms there are to visit. Smaller, more, larger, less.

How do you make mistake free choices?

cheers,

AJ

 

[TheOctopus]

And yet we exist, in an analogue world. (unless you think we don´t). And we are ruled by analogue laws.

Saying so, let me put this questions just to try to understand your point:

- what system do you have? Please let us know.
- How do you make your choices? How do you avoid the perception mistakes?
- as you said before about your cables , could you say the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?

Since you feel I need to disclose my audio background and I am not a frequent flyer to this forum, I don't mind sharing that info. It's not a secret lol.

I've been into high end audio since 1982 but the budget wasn't quite there yet so I had to make do with a Denon system.
When I moved to Philadelphia suburbs in the late 80's, it got serious.
I was blessed to have been surrounded by fantastic high end audio stores during the two decades that followed. Overtures in Delaware, Soundex in Willow Grove, David Lewis Audio in Philadelphia, The Cable Company in Bucks County, Pa.

I spent countless hours listening in all the stores to just about every piece of gear spanning the two and half decades. There probably wasn't one brand that I did not get to hear since the preowned market and turnover rate was simply booming at Soundex and the "take it home and play with it for the weekend" was the norm for customers.

I've spent a small fortune "Borrowing" Cables from the The Cable Company Lending Library which carried just about every cable out there. If you are not familiar, I highly recommend it when shopping for and chasing the cable game. I've had no less than a few dozen of the top cable brands come through my house and often 2 or 3 at a time to get a good grasp at the differences. They even lend gear to evaluate these days. https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library

Between me and 3 other friends over the two decades we have listened, evaluated, obsessed and bought, traded and of course borrowed from each other to the point of nausea...

It would also be easier for me to tell you what gear I did not own over the 30+ years than what gear I have owned. Just briefly to put the skepticism to rest, I have owned 5 pairs of Sonus Faber speakers, 4 pairs of Wilson Speakers, 2 pairs of Martin Logan speakers, Dynaudio, Harbeth, 3 pairs of Tannoy and even a few I have built myself since I have an electronics degree and decided to give it a try. Not bad actually, a friend of mine still uses the two way speakers I designed along with my own crossovers that were scratch built from Madisound catalog at a fraction of the cost of store speakers. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/

As far as gear, I've either had "on loan" or at some point have "owned" just about every one of the well known brands of the 80's through late 90's. McCormack, Audible Illusions, Convergent Audio Technologies, Krell, Audio Research, BAT, McIntosh, Lamm, Bryston. Audio Research and finally ending up with D'Agostino Momentum Monoblocks x3 for a custom theater/2ch room with Wilson Alexia and Polaris center channel.

So could I say as you put it "the same about the rest of your system? In another words, can we think your system is the best buy we can achieve, and everything forward is snake oil and if we buy it is just by the power of suggestion?"

I would never say that and I didn't. There is no such thing as "the best system" and everything forward is snake oil. The best system is the one you have assembled to the best of your budget and desires. I am not delusional to say ALL GEAR sounds the same. However, whether one spends $10k or $100k is not necessarily a good indicator of how much satisfaction one will derive if one knows what he/she is doing. I've heard plenty of systems that were ludicrous in amount $$$ invested and sounded like total crap and made me want to run away to spare my ears....



As far as cables, YES, I am happy with Transparent the WAVE speaker cables for $250 after spending a small fortune on Transparent for my own Wilson/D'Agostino room. Imagine that! I can spend another fortune if I so desire but at this point I will never do that as after 30 plus years of high end audio I have placed cables on the very last shelf of importance to my system.

In fact when I assembled a new system just a year and a half ago, I thought about what I would enjoy and what I wanted to accomplish from yet "another system" and I am perfectly happy with the Harbeth 30.2, Luxman 509AXII, D-06 and PrimaLuna Dialogue HP for when the mood for tubes strikes. I could have duplicated any of the systems I've had in the past but I've also learned that $$$$ spent on the drastic diminishing rate of returns in Audio was simply NOT worth it to me anymore. It is about MUSIC after all, not so much the shiny boxes, at least for me. Harbeth and Luxman is very musical and pleasing to my ears. A solid musical system without going nuts.

For cables I didn't even bother thinking about what would be a good match, I simply picked up some Wire World ICs and am perfectly happy with the result. If it was Transparent again, I AM positive the results would have been absolutely the SAME. :scholar:

Like I said, "borrow" any cable you want from the Cable Lending company and let your own ears be the judge but as we already have discovered so many interesting facts in this thread along the way.... Ahem, whatever.... https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library

 

[TheOctopus]

By the way, the reason I even buy a brand cable anymore is because they have much higher quality terminations. But as always, FWIW and YMMV. Love the cable game? Play on! :exciting:

 

[TheOctopus]

Since I love a practical joke and fortunately my friends still tolerate my sense of humor... but just barely LOL, I brought over to my friend's place a $6.59 Ethernet cable I bought on Amazon that I needed for my router (of course I also listened to it for fun in my system inserting it between the wifi extender and the Bryston BDP Pi I use for streaming and since I had zero expectations, there were zero differences.)

Anyways, I brought it over and told him with a serious face that I have a fantastic Ethernet cable. (I am not going to name the brand he is using not to ruffle any feathers here and it is not my point anyways.)

I asked him not to look while I swap it in for his and he of course being a good sport agreed. We listened and listened some more... He eventually tells me, "you know, I can't really tell a difference but I think I kind of prefer the midrange of your Ethernet cable, what is it and is it more expensive or cheaper than mine??? ) Of course we had a good laugh after. I gave him the cable as a token of the tolerance of my evil ways. :congrats: I ordered another one for my own system by the way. It is a really great Ethernet cable for $6.59 and I will listen to my system with this cable without hesitation.

Jacintha sounded as good as she ever did with the $6.59 Ethernet cable. Trust me on that.

Tera Grand - 3FT - Premium CAT7 Double Shielded 10 Gigabit 600MHz Ethernet Patch Cable for Modem Router LAN Network, Gold Plated Shielded RJ45 Connectors, Faster Than CAT6a CAT6 CAT5e, Black.

 

[joeinid]

The power of suggestion is very strong. Too funny.

 

[TheOctopus]

The power of suggestion is very strong. Too funny.

I believe so Joe. Obviously we typically do not go into a cable listening session without having at least some preconceived notion about the brand and/or having read or heard of some of the attributes. Thankfully we have plenty of magazines and words of other audiophiles to fill our heads with the “primers”. It is hard to stay objective. When one has heard that cable XYZ has greater sense of resolution, air up top, sweeter midrange, tighter, deeper bass, etc, etc, upon listening, we will surely hear those differences as we expect them to be there. I’ve always found that if I didn’t hear those promised attributes on my “reference track”, then surely within a few more tracks I would convince myself I’m hearing it. Real or imagined is difficult to say after that until you swap the old cable back in and once again be confused within a few more tracks. It’s next to impossible to compare that way as the brain and ears simply play tricks on us. I’m strongly leaning towards the fact that we “convince” ourselves.

 

[TheOctopus]

Of course if one really does not hear a difference right away, the cable needs more burn in...

 

[Mike]

There is no doubt in my mind there is a sonic difference between the no name CAT7, the AQ Diamond and the Shunyata Sigma we have in the store. We have done numerous shootouts, one was a blind shootout for a client who was not a believer.

What I find is the more revealing the speakers, the more you will hear the differences. With the Avantgarde’s, the difference is immediately noticeable to the extreme. With Magico’s, you can definitely hear the difference. With colored speakers, much less so.

So in the end, everything matters.




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