Test results and working on my room

sleepysurf said:
Before "giving up" on the room, I suggest you objectively measure your speaker/room response, and see what you're actually dealing with, with regard to bass response/modes, as well as overall frequency response. Clap tests and listening don't give you the complete picture. The XTZ Room Analyzer and Parts Express Omnimic kits are simple all-in-one-box solutions, or you could cobble together a measurement system (mic and USB soundcard) and use REW. Personally, I've found the XTZ kit to be extremely helpful (and easy) to identify issues in my mixed use family/listening room, and assess the effects of various room treatments (rug, absorption panels, and bass traps).

(BTW, not really intending to sneak in a For Sale plug, but I just ordered the newer XTZ Room Analyzer Pro, and am selling my original XTZ v.1 kit. I'm not very active in this forum, so I posted in Classifieds on other forums, but feel free to PM me if interested).
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Thank you for this info. I'd be interested in cobbling together a soundcard, microphone and REW. The XTZ kits cost are more than half my system value in my opinion. I have a USB soundcard already and REW is free (I just found). My only question is where to get the proper microphone. (I think there is a special one you have to use isn't there)? I'm thinking the instructions to REW will be able to teach me what to do and how to interpret the data...I hope. The design of the room does not allow me to do much. There is only one wall which I installed panels on already. It's basically one big open room. The living room part is narrow and is the access point to the bedrooms on one side. So there really is not any place for bass traps anyway. Very poorly designed room built in the 80s.
 
Prices go from inexpensive (under $100) to VERY expensive ($low thousands).

Depending on the microphone, you might need a XLR to USB interface. The Shure X2U (about $100 if I recall) works for me with REW.

The relatively inexpensive ones do very well for the low and middle frequency measurements. The high frequency measurements are less critical when it comes to flattening your room response because comb filtering enters into the equation, and you are mostly going to add or subtract treble, in contrast to low and middle ranges where your treatment will be more frequency selective.

See these links for measurement microphones:

RealTraps - Measuring Microphones

Measurement Mic Shootout (EMM-6, WM-61A, RS 33-2055, Audyssey)

Inexpensive Measurement mic

TestMic.com - the best in Precision Mics.

or do a google search for "measurement microphone"
 
GaryProtein said:
Prices go from inexpensive (under $100) to VERY expensive ($low thousands).

Depending on the microphone, you might need a XLR to USB interface. The Shure X2U (about $100 if I recall) works for me with REW.

The relatively inexpensive ones do very well for the low and middle frequency measurements. The high frequency measurements are less critical when it comes to flattening your room response because comb filtering enters into the equation, and you are mostly going to add or subtract treble, in contrast to low and middle ranges where your treatment will be more frequency selective.

See these links for measurement microphones:

RealTraps - Measuring Microphones

Measurement Mic Shootout (EMM-6, WM-61A, RS 33-2055, Audyssey)

Inexpensive Measurement mic

TestMic.com - the best in Precision Mics.

or do a google search for "measurement microphone"
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Thank you. From what I read so far, a $50 measurement mic will do the job and do it very well. Come to think of it, I do have the mic that came with my Onkyo receiver for the Audyssy thing. I wonder if that would do well? Do I also need an SPL meter? If so, that will be harder to obtain since radio shack is out of business. I'm not an expert on frequencies and tweaking them. I'm hoping the software or what have you. I want to be careful because this room is impossible and I don't want to throw any more money at it while holding my breath just hoping it works only to have it have no effect. I have what can be called the worst room on the planet. At least that's what the engineer at GIK told me and he is right. EDIT: A quick Google revealed an abundance of Exetech SPL meters available on amazon, BH Photo, etc. Don't need radio shack. I'm hesitant though as I don't want to throw any more money at the room as I feel I'm spinning my wheels. I'm still looking at options though if they are easy, inexpensive and guaranteed to make a difference that is easily noticed. Doesn't have to be big, just noticeable at least.
 
Your Audessy mic should do fine.

You do not need an SPL meter. The software for the REW will take care of that.

You still probably need the Shure X2U XLR microphone to USB interface.
 
GaryProtein said:
Your Audessy mic should do fine.

You do not need an SPL meter. The software for the REW will take care of that.

You still probably need the Shure X2U XLR microphone to USB interface.
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It's not worth doing if I need that $100 interface. The room is a dead horse as far as I can see and I really don't have any more money to waste on it with no results. Even the engineer told me the only other thing I could do is corner bass traps. Problem is, I have no corners except behind one speaker and I don't think there is a problem there since my speakers don't port in the rear. The only fix I see is to move and sadly that won't happen anytime soon.
~Eric
PS. I'm saving up for a new A/V receiver anyway which is going to take a long time. Perhaps with the new receiver having an improved version of Audyssy or whatever it may do a better job of adjusting for the room, I don't know.
 
It doesn't matter if the speakers have a port in the back or not as far as bass traps and room treatment is concerned. The very low frequencies radiate in a sphere.
 
Eric, what Audyssey's flavor do you have; MultEQ XT?

And no; you cannot use your Audyssey mic with any other component; it was calibrated for your specific Onkyo receiver model.
...And you cannot use another mic (from another receiver's model or brand) with your Onkyo receiver.
 
NorthStar said:
Eric, what Audyssey's flavor do you have; MultEQ XT?

And no; you cannot use your Audyssey mic with any other component; it was calibrated for your specific Onkyo receiver model.
...And you cannot use another mic (from another receiver's model or brand) with your Onkyo receiver.
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I have the first generation Audyssey (MultiEQ XT). My new receiver will have MultiEQ XT32, which from what I have read so far is a decent improvement over the MultiEQ XT. I was thinking about using the Audyssy mic with REW, but if that is not the case a measurement mic is not that expensive.
 
GaryProtein said:
It doesn't matter if the speakers have a port in the back or not as far as bass traps and room treatment is concerned. The very low frequencies radiate in a sphere.
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I don't have any low frequency issues according to my ears. Putting one trap in one corner won't do anything. (I don't think I could purchase one trap anyway, most places want you to by 2 to 4 at a time or complete kits). My issue is echo. The highs and mids bounce off in every direction. (ceiling, floor, wall). I already have absorbers on the wall behind the sofa and they helped a tiny bit. I also have a rug on the floor which hardly improved things at all because of where the speakers have to be. It's just a stupid room and I don't have the money or expertise to deal with stupid. If it was a normal room with carpet 1) I wouldn't have a problem most likely and 2) it would be far easier to treat if I did.
 
If echo is your problem, get an area rug and hang it on the rear wall (behind where you sit).
 
GaryProtein said:
If echo is your problem, get an area rug and hang it on the rear wall (behind where you sit).
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I live in an apartment so I could not do that. What I did, that actually cost a little less was hang a couple of big acoustic panels. I chose those because they weigh less and mounted with nothing but a single tiny little nail/pic hanger thing. Unfortunately, that only made a tiny improvement. Noticeable, but tiny. They are also more acceptable to others living with me. What would help is carpet, but that isn't going to happen. ~Eric
 
Eric, is your receiver the Onkyo TX-SR805 or TX-SR705 by any unlucky* chance?
* 'Unlucky' because of the inferior Onkyo hockey puck style microphone. The Audyssey pyramid type mic is much superior.

Yes a good measurement calibrated mic (with phantom power suply) is very affordable: $50-80 (German made).
- Dayton Audio EMM-6
- Behringer ECM8000
 
gooch said:
Eric maybe try the panels at the first reflection point of the room
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The wall behind the sofa is a reflection point. The other reflection points are the ceiling and the floor, both of which nothing can be done. There are no other reflection points in the room.
 
NorthStar said:
Eric, is your receiver the Onkyo TX-SR805 or TX-SR705 by any unlucky* chance?
* 'Unlucky' because of the inferior Onkyo hockey puck style microphone. The Audyssey pyramid type mic is much superior.

Yes a good measurement calibrated mic (with phantom power suply) is very affordable: $50-80 (German made).
- Dayton Audio EMM-6
- Behringer ECM8000
Click to expand...

It's the TX-SR705. Ironically considered entry level high-end at the time. If I get any mic it will need to be calibrated though.
 
MusicDirector said:
It's the TX-SR705. Ironically considered entry level high-end at the time. If I get any mic it will need to be calibrated though.
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You need a new receiver if you truly want to take advantage of what Audyssey MultEQ XT (or XT32) can do; like the Onkyo TX-NR818 (XT32) receiver for example (which you can get for a song).
- I know so because I used to have the Onkyo TX-SR805 myself, and now the Integra DHC-80.3 surround pre/pro. ...Other models and brands too between, and before.
You'll never know till you experience it for yourself.

P.S. I wrote intensively about almost all A/V receivers, from all price categories, and classes, and models, and brands, at several audio/video forums for the last five years or so. It is one of my specialties, among many others.
But you'd never know just talking to me like that casually.
 
NorthStar said:
You need a new receiver if you truly want to take advantage of what Audyssey MultEQ XT (or XT32) can do; like the Onkyo TX-NR818 (XT32) receiver for example (which you can get for a song).
- I know so because I used to have the Onkyo TX-SR805 myself, and now the Integra DHC-80.3 surround pre/pro. ...Other models and brands too between, and before.
You'll never know till you experience it for yourself.

P.S. I wrote intensively about almost all A/V receivers, from all price categories, and classes, and models, and brands, at several audio/video forums for the last five years or so. It is one of my specialties, among many others.
But you'd never know just talking to me like that casually.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am in the process of saving up for a new receiver. It may not be another Onkyo or Integra though.
 
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