Tariff implications.........
- Thread starter Mikado463
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Just look around your house, where do you think this 1K printer of yours was made?? Nothing is made in the United States from scratch anymore. At best, the US assembles products from mostly imported parts, the bulk of which comes from China.
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Use your head instead. The numbers are there, I pointed them out for you, and don't forget to look up where rubber is made (Its not China, but it sure is not the US either).
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gordon
Member
I'm trying to buy an amp from an American manufacturer. It's a new product. Here's a quote from the manufacturer.
"Obviously current events give me pause. Our machinist is in ON, CA. Our power transformers are made custom for us, in Asia. "
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I have always preferred to buy American, when possible. If the product is of equal quality it is a no brainer for me. However, this is an overly simplified concept in practice, because most items, especially larger items such as audio gear and cars are built using parts that are manufactured in many places. Rarely available in the US. Many times American made is not what you think. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, etc., etc., have plants in the US. I believe GM has huge plants in Canada (among others).
Rubber gloves are a ridiculously simplified example. One basic ingredient. A whole lot different than an automobile. A great example is a door latch on a car goes through many stages of manufacturing prior to being installed in that car. Following that latch showed that it crossed the US and Canadian border four times prior to being actually installed in the car assembly.
Many small parts such as those that are used in a majority of audio gear are not available in the US. The Chips act was actually a step toward addressing this issue. Has that been cancelled yet? I know I heard that being discussed because a certain name was attached to it.
Printer cartridges are an excellent example to prove that your point is just not correct. Canon cartridges are made mainly in Japan, while HP are mainly made in Malaysia. Most other lesser brands are also manufactured over seas. Epson is a rarity in that much of their ink for the refillable ink wells are made in Oregon.
There really is no such thing as pure American made any more. The world has become a global manufacturing effort. The made in America and this whole tariff push is complete non-sense and is a talking point to rile up the followers. It is not based in reality, because there is almost nothing that is purely American made, or even could be American made. For example, please check where all of the MAGA wearables come from. Mostly China, Vietnam and Malaysia. That red hat says made in China right inside it, if they would bother to actually look. The one thing that is true is that none of it is actually American made.
And when I hear that "they stole our jobs" I just want to explode. No country stole anything. Corporate greed moved these factories to other countries, not the other way around. The billionaires shipped our manufacturing over seas to save themselves a buck and then they use it as a talking point to to rile up the uneducated masses. When I hear these kind of catch phrases I try to understand the motivations behind it. Much of it has nefarious goals as their driving forces.
puroagave
Active member
This is a CCP soft power channel created to shape public opinion with half truths and misinformation. Its 100% AI generated and the comments section smells like Wumao botts, they're 100% China good, USA bad. click on any of the profiles of the commenters, they're all blank. Have you ever heard of Andrey Vondemark? Neither has the internet, its a made up personality using the face of a Westerner to give an illusion its coming from a legit source. There are dozens of YouTube channels like theses esp countering the abuses of the uyghur population, forced labor camps and live organ harvesting from followers of Falun Gong. Google does nothing to block this nonsense but they demonetize channles like China Uncenssored which is legit with 2 million subs.
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Shadowfax
Well-known member
Although I generally agree with your comments on Corporate Greed, lets take a few steps back and look at a few of the driving factors. No matter what most people think, there has been an underlying push by unelected people (like Soros) to undermine and weaken the US for many years.
I first noticed years ago when an an administration put the NAFTA deal in place. I was a Toolmaker/Machine Designer-Builder at the time. Remember the ZIF CPU Sockets? We built the machines to stitch and inspect the contacts into all the holes before it was mated to the motherboard. Remember the first expensive glass fiber optic cables? We built the machines to polish the ends of the fibers for AMP. We also used to build Vision Inspection Systems for BMS in Jersey. I spent lots of time there. Then NAFTA came about and lots of MFG was sent to Mexico. I was Laid Off as a Toolmaker and hired back as a Machinist for less money. That made great strides in weakening the US MFG sector along with our ridiculous Inflation.
Also look at all the administrations that have been trying to push the Green New Scam on us. Certain administrations put so much red tape and regulations in place to make it difficult for US MFGs to survive here. Do you see the same regulations in all the other countries but maybe a few? China does not have what we had, nor India and the rest of where everything now gets made.
You mentioned Chips. NVIDIA is investing a lot of money here in the US now. That is a start. Also even tho the Fake News is not reporting on it, there are already Chinese companies preparing to build things in the US. We also need to bring back all Pharma MFG so we are not dependent on China for our meds. (thankfully I don't take any but happen to be a Regulatory Support Consultant now)
China needs our economy more than we need theirs. All their big banks already reported record losses for the first quarter. They are laying people off left and right while here in the US we are adding jobs daily. They will crack because the people will rebel at some point but they are in for a major recession while their leaders play with their lives.
170 Countries had Tariffs on US Goods before any of this Tariff War started and all of a sudden people get upset when we try to level the field and stop the US from getting ripped off all the time. If you just sit back and let things play out instead of sweating Today, you will see that we will come out of this in much better condition than we were in 8 months ago. Will it take time, sure it will. It took many years to get us to this screwed up point also.
So yes, there is Corporate Greed everywhere but it is not the sole factor in moving much of our MFG oversees.
treitz3
Member
Randy, you are entitled to your own opinions. That said, you are not entitled to your own set of facts. Please allow me to show you another aspect that is a well known fact to many, but apparently not by you. We all know China steals intellectual property and that they reverse engineer products to sell as "original", even though the final products are nowhere close to the original product. They copy and sell (as original brand name products) audio cables, printer cartridges, handbags, watches, athletic apparel, makeup, electronics......and the list goes on ad nauseam.
I invite you to do yourself a favor. You may just learn something, instead of trying to school me on being incorrect (in your opinion). Simply Google, "Is China known to fake printer cartridges, even if they are brand name?"
You can rephrase it however you would like, but the answer is the same. China is well known for producing counterfeit printer cartridges, even though they claim to be branded. It goes on to state that these cartridges may potentially cause damage or poor print quality.
I have personal experience with this, and after speaking with 3 different repair shops - they all asked the same question. "Did you buy your printer cartridges from Amazon?". They also all said to change the cartridges with OEM cartridges purchased through a legit seller (Staples, Sam's, HP direct...), and if the issue remained after that, to bring it in. When I went and looked at my purchase history, even though the printer had worked flawlessly for years on end, it was 2 weeks after I ordered the cartridges off Amazon that the unit failed. Hundreds of dollars down the drain for the fake (sold as brand name, genuine HP products) cartridges and now I have to get a set of OEM cartridges.
Next time you post something, I would advise keeping in mind that you do not know everything. Instead of "schooling me" on your "excellent example", maybe you could have simply asked how I knew about this. That said, I will not argue with you about this, as it's not my style. The bigger point that I am trying to make here is that China isn't all roses and rainbows, as some posters on this board would have us believe. I am sick and tired of all of the three "C"'s. Cheap Chinese Crap.
This does not include the harmful products sent here by China like radioactive sheet rock, toxic dog food, sweets that included melamine and formaldehyde, toxic toothpaste, carcinogenic fish, and kid's toy's with lead in them.
Tom
Randy Myers
Well-known member
All of course makes sense and is part of it. The thing is I do not trust in corporate and billionaires. They have proven over time where their true interests lie, and it is not the American people. I also know that no corporations will "do the right thing" without regulations. It simply is the facts.
Also, we do need to work with our environment in mind. Otherwise we won't have an Earth to pass to our grand children. This again is the facts. Climate change is real and it is really affecting our world already. Just look at all the major climate disasters that have been happening. Again, it is the facts. Corporations will not deal with these things unless they are forced to. Again this is the facts that have proven to be true.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I never said that China, among others, do not make "fake" or off shoot versions. Of course they and others do. What I stated was that the original cartridges are not made in America. Therefore buying original manufactures ink and cartridges (which I 100% do) is still buying those that are made over seas, other than the Epson ink, which is in fact what I use. The Epson wide format printer that I use for my artwork is vastly better than the Canon that I had before it, and as far as I know it is the only "refills" that are actually made in the US. I did not buy this printer because of these facts, I bought it because I felt it was better and being American made refills was a nice side benefit.
By the way, all items made in China are not CCC. B&W and KEF both manufacture quality speakers in China. Epiphone guitars is owned by Gibson and is marketed as their lower line product. They are very high quality (although I still prefer the US made Gibson). Like anywhere else, there are good and bad.
I remember when Japan made was considered cheap trinkets... but then they got better and eventually were excellent stuff (Yamaha, Luxman, Accuphase, etc., etc.). I very much prefer built in the USA. But don't make out like everything coming from any particular other country is crap. On this point you are absolute incorrect.
You obviously like tubes. Where exactly are your tubes made? Are they Westinghouse? If not they are made in Russia or China.
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NewAlkyogre
Active member
If there are quality, safety and branding issues with some Chinese crap, isn’t it better to block all those wrong goods instead of tarrifs?
treitz3
Member
Well, China has been known to ship (or "wash") their wares to other countries to bypass tariffs. They will most assuredly do the same thing if these items are blocked. They will try everything and anything to bypass any block effort....just based upon their history.
Randy, it seems as if I am talking to a deflective brick wall with you. I never stated that everything that comes out of China qualifies for the three "C" category. So I will decline to respond beyond that. If you want the last word, so be it. I won't argue, as it's not my style.
Tom
Randy, it seems as if I am talking to a deflective brick wall with you. I never stated that everything that comes out of China qualifies for the three "C" category. So I will decline to respond beyond that. If you want the last word, so be it. I won't argue, as it's not my style.
Tom
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I 100% agree. Block the fakes or counterfeits for sure.
However tariffs are not about fake products, and those pushing them, for the most part, have no idea of how the global market works. How hard hitting it is to US manufacturing. How US farmers are being hurt very badly.
I read yesterday how US ports are being absolutely demolished and it is starting to cause issues that may very well turn into long term problems for the shipping industry as a whole. Trucking is starting to feel the pinch. The ways that the US is being hit and causing mass devastation is beyond belief. The biggest issues is those who are promoting these tariffs consider them a bargaining tool, while the world looks at it as destabilizing and an economic disaster.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Obviously it has proven to be your style. All I stated was that original cartridges were not manufactured in the US therefore buying originals did not lend itself to buying USA made. You then went on some diatribe about fake products coming out of China and about CCC (cheap Chinese crap, your words).
First off, we were talking about American made and no where was fake imitation ever mentioned. Second you did heavily imply that everything coming out of China was crap. I simply showed that Epson ink tank refills were the only replacements that are made in the US (in Oregon actually).
Shadowfax
Well-known member
The climate of Earth has changed from hot to cold many many times. We also have lots of Geo Engineering going on that the people like us have no clue what they are spraying or trying to do. Some of the Ice has actually grown larger over the past several years in some areas.
That said, we should all be conscious of how we treat Mother Earth but I refuse to allow people to tell me I have to buy an EV, or Electric Stove, Lawnmower when we are not even close to having the needed infrastructure to support it. That was just another part of the scam being pushed along with 15 Minute Cities and Central Bank Digital Currency to control and weaken us. Can you imagine trying to power all of Manufacturing. with costly and ugly Windmills or Solar farms that get damaged in Hail Storms?
They should teach Energy Conservation and many other environmental conscious subjects in school instead of Pro Nouns so we can all contribute, not shove it down our throats and collect money as Carbon Credits and such that really don't stop Global Warming-Climate Change but rather just line the pockets of the same few associated with the WEF and Soros and that crew.
crwilli
Active member
Offshoring isn’t just driven by corporate greed—it’s a complex response to global competition, shareholder pressure, consumer demand for low prices, and high domestic costs like taxes and regulations. Companies often move jobs abroad to stay competitive, not just to increase profits. Blaming greed oversimplifies the issue and ignores the broader economic forces at play.
Always easier to blame ‘the man’.
Always easier to blame ‘the man’.
atmasphere
Active member
Where has that happened?
Huh? When you go to an electric lawnmower you really won't want to go back. So much easier!! The infrastructure for electric stoves (and mowers) has been around for about 70-80 years at this point.
The real issue is probably electric cars. The oil industry has been actively suppressing electrics for well over 100 years at this point. You might be interested to know that the first land speed record over 60 mph was set by an electric car in 1898. Ford and Edison had an electric in 1912 that had a range of 100 miles and could cruise at 60, due to Edison's refinement of nickel Iron batteries, which had a lifespan of over 25 years and about 50% greater energy density than lead acid. An apparent arson fire in his concrete laboratory put an end to that. You might ask why lead acid is still around and the answer is oil companies.
There is a wonderful book on this topic called Internal Combustion. Big Oil has us addicted to oil and they really don't like competition. If you are familiar with Moore's Law, which is how computing continues to get faster and more compact, to accommodate portables batteries have been forced to become better too. If we had been developing batteries in an open market instead of one with suppression, electrics would have been practical decades ago.
I built an electric about 20 years ago which was a disaster (the controller didn't work; I didn't find that out until testing it, about 2 weeks after the company that made it went out of business...), along the way I learned a lot about electrics.
One of our customers has done a lot of work developing batteries and 10 years ago had a battery whose chemistry allowed it to be recharged to 90% in about 5 minutes if you had enough current available (and right there is the infrastructure issue). He worked with Dr. Stanford Ovshinsky.
treitz3
Member
The infrastructure is there, but is not able to maintain or (with certainty) remain reliable, especially during peak demand times. Think rolling blackouts due to demand. Our current infrastructure needs a massive overhaul.
Tom
Tom
Shadowfax
Well-known member
The Infrastructure for full on Electric Only Manufacturing, Home and Work Heating and EVs all together is not there yet. And making everything electric gives a few people the power to shut you down if your social credit score falls. Choice, yes, forced on us NO.
And on top of all that we allowed China to set us up nicely to fail whenever they feel like flipping the switch.
Several components of the US electrical infrastructure are manufactured in China, raising concerns about potential vulnerabilities
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Here are some key components:
- Transformers: China is a major supplier of large power transformers, including those used in the high-voltage transmission system. Experts estimate that hundreds of Chinese-made transformers are already in operation within the US power grid, and this number has been increasing.
- Inverters: These devices are crucial for converting DC power to AC power, and are used in a variety of applications including solar power systems and the electrical grid. The US has imported millions of inverters from China.
- Circuit Breakers: These are essential safety devices in the electrical grid, protecting equipment from damage by interrupting the flow of electricity when faults occur. China is a leading producer of circuit breakers, including those used in ultra-high-voltage systems.
- Battery Energy Storage Systems (BESS): Chinese companies are major players in the global battery market and supply batteries for grid-scale energy storage projects in the US.
- Other components: Chinese manufacturers also produce a variety of other components used in the electrical grid, including process sensors, control systems, and other equipment.
The widespread use of Chinese-made equipment in the US electrical grid has raised concerns about potential security risks:
- Cybersecurity Vulnerabilities: Experts fear that Chinese-made equipment could contain hidden backdoors or vulnerabilities that could be exploited for espionage or sabotage.
- Supply Chain Disruptions: The US's dependence on Chinese suppliers creates potential vulnerabilities in the event of geopolitical tensions or trade disputes.
- Intellectual Property Theft: There are concerns about potential theft of intellectual property related to US energy technology by Chinese companies.
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