Tariff implications.........

True free trade isn’t a bad concept. But it needs to be equal free trade.

In true free trade eventually the world s workforce would be treated the same and have the same working conditions/ hours/ wages / etc. That means it would be the average of how USA treats workers and China treats workers and Mexico treats workers and India treats workers etc. Theirs would go up and USA would go down.

As much as I feel bad for the working conditions of these places I do not want to give up the working conditions we have here in the USA.

I’ll bet that in most cases even doubling the prices w tariffs from China - it would still be cheaper than building it here.
 
Mike said:
www.strata-gee.com

T-Day+1: Tariffs...And So It Begins...

Most industry manufacturers have updated their pricing with tariff-driven price increases...some as high as 50+%.
www.strata-gee.com www.strata-gee.com
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Now that Tannoy has left the UK and all its Chinese made speakers are back in China (don't even ask about the status of their former five UK employees who pretended to be engineers and factory workers) It's going to be fun watching the Tarriffs crater what little business Tannoy had left from playing the cloak-and-dagger "it's made in the UK bit not really: game.
 
To be clear, tariffs are a tax on people that live in the country that imposes the tariff. So if you live in the US, US tariffs are a tax on you if you buy anything subject to tariff. The idea that the country from whom you are buying is paying the tax is simply false. They taught this stuff in 3rd and 4th grade in the 1960s...

All American made audio equipment will be more expensive due to tariffs. This is simple economics. Assuming the parts needed are actually available from American producers using American sourced raw materials, the simple fact that they have more production pressure (competition for those parts) raises prices.

We use transformers made by American transformer companies. But they use materials that are imported and one of them has factories in Ireland, India and China. Anyone using transformers will see increased prices.

My sheet metal people here in town are telling me they have no idea what the pricing will be on future runs due to the fluctuations of materials.

All kinds of other parts also use imported materials; resistors, capacitors, hardware, sockets, wire, solder and so on. There's only one vacuum tube producer in the US, Western Electric, and they don't have the capacity to make all the various types of tubes in use in high end audio (and the far bigger market, musical instrument amplifiers) today. So we're seeing tube prices going crazy. Semiconductors are going up in price too.

Simple economics.

Although I was ill and couldn't make AXPONA this year, we had a good show in that we had good sounding rooms. But people have been hurt by the market instability and as anyone in high end audio knows, we survive solely on disposable income. The phone has stopped ringing and I'm seeing far less email inquiries. If this continues we can shut down for a while but if we have to do that valuable employee expertise likely will find other employment. We're not alone in this; you can see that this sort of thing will hurt manufacturers across the country. In our case it takes about 6-8 months before an assembly worker can learn the ropes to have good production.

I see all sorts of spin on this thread, but that is all it is: spin. Spin all you like, vanishing trillions(!!) of dollars in a matter of days did no one any good except perhaps those that might have had insider knowledge. If we really are to source all that's needed for a real economy here in the US, its going to take many years to built factories and quite a lot of investment for which many US companies simply don't have resources.

My perspective is what we are experiencing is anti-business. I'd love to be proven wrong!!

Several historical tariff attempts show how economically dangerous this is; tariffs were a major influence on the great depression and Hitler imposed heavy tariffs with terrible results. FWIW, the guy that recommended tariffs in the Trump administration (Navarro) made the whole thing up by quoting a made up 'expert' whose name is an anagram of his own.
 
atmasphere said:
To be clear, tariffs are a tax on people that live in the country that imposes the tariff. So if you live in the US, US tariffs are a tax on you if you buy anything subject to tariff. The idea that the country from whom you are buying is paying the tax is simply false. They taught this stuff in 3rd and 4th grade in the 1960s...

All American made audio equipment will be more expensive due to tariffs. This is simple economics. Assuming the parts needed are actually available from American producers using American sourced raw materials, the simple fact that they have more production pressure (competition for those parts) raises prices.

We use transformers made by American transformer companies. But they use materials that are imported and one of them has factories in Ireland, India and China. Anyone using transformers will see increased prices.

My sheet metal people here in town are telling me they have no idea what the pricing will be on future runs due to the fluctuations of materials.

All kinds of other parts also use imported materials; resistors, capacitors, hardware, sockets, wire, solder and so on. There's only one vacuum tube producer in the US, Western Electric, and they don't have the capacity to make all the various types of tubes in use in high end audio (and the far bigger market, musical instrument amplifiers) today. So we're seeing tube prices going crazy. Semiconductors are going up in price too.

Simple economics.

Although I was ill and couldn't make AXPONA this year, we had a good show in that we had good sounding rooms. But people have been hurt by the market instability and as anyone in high end audio knows, we survive solely on disposable income. The phone has stopped ringing and I'm seeing far less email inquiries. If this continues we can shut down for a while but if we have to do that valuable employee expertise likely will find other employment. We're not alone in this; you can see that this sort of thing will hurt manufacturers across the country. In our case it takes about 6-8 months before an assembly worker can learn the ropes to have good production.

I see all sorts of spin on this thread, but that is all it is: spin. Spin all you like, vanishing trillions(!!) of dollars in a matter of days did no one any good except perhaps those that might have had insider knowledge. If we really are to source all that's needed for a real economy here in the US, its going to take many years to built factories and quite a lot of investment for which many US companies simply don't have resources.

My perspective is what we are experiencing is anti-business. I'd love to be proven wrong!!

Several historical tariff attempts show how economically dangerous this is; tariffs were a major influence on the great depression and Hitler imposed heavy tariffs with terrible results. FWIW, the guy that recommended tariffs in the Trump administration (Navarro) made the whole thing up by quoting a made up 'expert' whose name is an anagram of his own.
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Thank you, what you wrote is exactly what I have been trying (not as expertly as you) to say and/or point out. What is going on is complete BS and made up by those with alternative motives or mental disorders. It has been shown and proven over and over throughout the years that tariffs were the driving force behind the great depression and to some extend behind WWII.

A delusional man and his top advisers who have Nazi beliefs is causing huge harm to the American people. Instead of helping American manufactures they are driving them out of business. As usually, the ones that will feel the greatest pain are those that can least handle it. Thank you to all of the people who put this madman in charge. You should be embarrassed and fighting hard to right this incredibly wrong that you had a hand in.

By the way, my wife and I got groceries yesterday and doing our usual stocking up our reserve cabinets. We did not purchase more, but instead were a bit more careful than normal. We spent $740 combined between Sam's and Dillons. That is beyond insane. Where is the pricing going down on day one? Of course it was all bull shit and lies.
 
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Randy Myers said:
A delusional man and his top advisers who have Nazi beliefs is causing huge harm to the American people.
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Wow - your inner rage and TDS is sad and funny all at the same time.

The great thing about TDS is people try to seem so normal and sensible in the beginning but they literally can't control the hate so it quickly comes out - as it has here.

Last I checked it was the left and the Democrats attacking Jews on campuses, literally going into classrooms demeaning Jewish students "identify themselves", attacking the student, and handing out propaganda supplied to them by imported Palestinian Hamas 35 year old "student" activists and supporting murdering / raping Hamas.

Then on the other side we have someone trying to protect Israel and whose daughter is Jewish.

Pretty obvious who the real Nazi's are.
 
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Randy Myers said:
Thank you, what you wrote is exactly what I have been trying (not as expertly as you) to say and/or point out. What is going on is complete BS and made up by those with alternative motives or mental disorders. It has been shown and proven over and over throughout the years that tariffs were the driving force behind the great depression and to some extend behind WWII.

A delusional man and his top advisers who have Nazi beliefs is causing huge harm to the American people. Instead of helping American manufactures they are driving them out of business. As usually, the ones that will feel the greatest pain are those that can least handle it. Thank you to all of the people who put this madman in charge. You should be embarrassed and fighting hard to right this incredibly wrong that you had a hand in.

By the way, my wife and I got groceries yesterday and doing our usual stocking up our reserve cabinets. We did not purchase more, but instead were a bit more careful than normal. We spent $740 combined between Sam's and Dillons. That is beyond insane. Where is the pricing going down on day one? Of course it was all bull shit and lies.
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only thing embarrassing is what you just typed, nazi beliefs, his daughter and grand kids are jewish, he's not driving anyone out of business, madman, yea, the left is straight as an arrow, give me a break
 
Tariffs are a tax - and as all taxes, us consumers pay them in higher prices. Just like taxes on USA businesses- us consumers pay them in higher prices.

Why is it ok for other contries to use tariffs on our products and that hasn’t caused a world war but if USA has tariffs then a world war starts? I’m missing something?????
 
the professor said:
Tariffs are a tax - and as all taxes, us consumers pay them in higher prices. Just like taxes on USA businesses- us consumers pay them in higher prices.

Why is it ok for other contries to use tariffs on our products and that hasn’t caused a world war but if USA has tariffs then a world war starts? I’m missing something?????
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exactly, God forbid our country stands up for themselves
 
And at this point I am jumping out of this bull shit. Far too many ill-informed people to actually have meaningful discussions. Have you read a single word that his top advisor Stephen Miller and others have written (Project 2025)? And, as far as that goes and as a matter of fact, did his daughter even campaign for him, did his wife?

The protest around our country from law abiding citizens should speak volumes on what real Americans think, not what one percenters think. He is in fact destroying this country from within. It is not me that stated the primary events leading to the great depression and WWII. It is fairly easy to find the research. It is not hard to find information about his background and his life. All it takes is a little research and taking the blinders off. Please do not mention me again in this thread or try to drag me into your stupidity any father. I am out of here...

By the way, making up fake syndromes and words to make your supporters feel better does not actually help this country. All it does is continue to rip the country apart from within. My niece, the Harvard PHD psychiatrist has posted many times how this wave of non-truths they are spreading is ripping our country apart from within.
 
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Michaels HiFi said:
Wow - your inner rage and TDS is sad and funny all at the same time.

The great thing about TDS is people try to seem so normal and sensible in the beginning but they literally can't control the hate so it quickly comes out - as it has here.

Last I checked it was the left and the Democrats attacking Jews on campuses, literally going into classrooms demeaning Jewish students "identify themselves", attacking the student, and handing out propaganda supplied to them by imported Palestinian Hamas 35 year old "student" activists and supporting murdering / raping Hamas.

Then on the other side we have someone trying to protect Israel and whose daughter is Jewish.

Pretty obvious who the real Nazi's are.
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Its not likely to further the conversation when name calling is invoked. Can we keep this civil?

Its also useful, re.: the name-calling, to remember it was Netanyahu who funded Hamas in the early 2000s so as to undermine the PA. Its also not anti-Semitic to recognize that genocide is occurring in Palestine. Its more accurate to say that's anti-Zionist; you can be one and not the other.

Personally I don't want to be associated with genocide.

With that out of the way, the actual topic here is tariffs.
the professor said:
Why is it ok for other contries to use tariffs on our products and that hasn’t caused a world war but if USA has tariffs then a world war starts? I’m missing something?????
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Yes.

Many of the countries with whom we do business are quite small. We often have a trade deficit (which is usually a good thing, simply, it means we have money to buy things) with these countries. An example is Eswatini, who produces agricultural products that we buy. They don't buy all that much from us and they do have a small tariff. The income they get from us is important to them though, so as US consumers move away from their products it will have a negative effect on both countries; obviously more on them than us. Their tariff on imported goods was minimal and was not focused on the US.

We live in (or did) a global economy in a very different way than we did only 40 years ago. We have been the richest country in the world so many poorer countries have had tariffs (or import duties; same thing really) that have done us no harm at all.

The problem of course is if tariffs are used as a punishment as we have done in the last few weeks, its very different from one that is not used for that purpose. None of this was a problem for us prior to the inauguration the last January, but now, solely out of declaration, it is.... unfortunately making things worse for us rather than better!

Its also important to keep in mind that the source of this approach to foreign affairs and trade is coming from Peter Navarro, who made up the whole tariff thing. You can find it in a book he wrote called 'Death by China'. Because the Trump administration had no perspective on how to deal with trade in 1.0, Jared Kushner was asked by Trump to study the matter. He found that book and bought on the title only. But it really is just a fantasy as Navarro made up the only 'expert' quoted in the book!

If one is educated in history , then the truth of the matter comes out: tariffs used as punishment doesn't work and mostly just punishes the country that imposes them (look up the Smoot-Hawley act and Hitler's imposition of tariffs). That is the take-away.

I should add another point: the manipulations of our markets by Trump have damaged more than just the stock market and increases in the price of goods. Its also caused world-wide loss of confidence in our national debt; IOW the bond market. This and other factors that are not within the topic of this thread is causing investors to look for safer markets. That is causing our interest rates on bonds to go higher, which in turn has forced the interest on the national debt to be higher than inflation and will fuel the latter.

What I don't get is why the Republican party is OK with this. Traditionally they have been about reducing debt (conservative) and pro-business but I see the 'big beautiful bill' that passed the House recently increases the budget by about 5 trillion dollars (while also hurting business)! On top of that the Trump administration is already spending more than the Biden (of whom I'm no fan) administration. I don't see the promised 'efficiency'. Definitely not what I voted for.
 
crwilli said:
This thread was always going to end with emotions.
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That is usually what happens when one watches too much MSM. People are still being very short sighted. This whole thing is part of a 5 level chess match. Whether you believe it or not, the FIAT money system we have been used to is on it's way out. In the long run after taxes are reduced, the dollar and gold are re-valued, people are going to have more money in their pocket to offset any of the costs related to tariffs or higher prices in general in order to pay people a living wage. I am all in and the rest of the world will follow. Enjoy the ride and don't let the bigger picture go out of focus, if you can even see it yet.
 
Shadowfax said:
Whether you believe it or not, the FIAT money system we have been used to is on it's way out. In the long run after taxes are reduced, the dollar and gold are re-valued
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This is something of which I've not heard. Where did you get this information?

IMO fiat (value out of declaration) has been a problem since the Fed was created.
 
Shadowfax said:
That is usually what happens when one watches too much MSM. People are still being very short sighted. This whole thing is part of a 5 level chess match. Whether you believe it or not, the FIAT money system we have been used to is on it's way out. In the long run after taxes are reduced, the dollar and gold are re-valued, people are going to have more money in their pocket to offset any of the costs related to tariffs or higher prices in general in order to pay people a living wage. I am all in and the rest of the world will follow. Enjoy the ride and don't let the bigger picture go out of focus, if you can even see it yet.
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The rest of the world won‘t follow, they choose to trade between each other. See it as a group of kids, when there is one they don‘t like, he may not play with the others anymore.

Same with whatsapp, if the atmosphere is not good, people are leaving and start a new group.

In trade, when putting tariffs to the whole world, all the others can trade between each other avoiding those tariffs.
 
atmasphere said:
This is something of which I've not heard. Where did you get this information?

IMO fiat (value out of declaration) has been a problem since the Fed was created.
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Sources that most here would deem not credible, we shall see. And if you have not heard of the new plans for lower taxes to come out of tariffs and energy sales along with tax revenue from all the business coming back to the US, I am unsure what you are listening to.
 
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