Taiko Extreme Review

Alkyogre said:
That is a great service, so in fact they buy all those future Microsoft licenses for you as support?
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Possibly, at some point in the future, there would be a need to move the entire server OS to a new version — but only if there is a sonic reason. I still run my UPS shipping software on an old PC running windows 7. Sure the OS isn’t supported anymore, but it does what it needs I am not running a lot of other programs dependent on the OS, just the UPS software. I have other computers too that still run windows 7 and some older Adobe apps, which also are not supported, but still work great.

Just because the OS isn’t supported does not make it stop working. There is even a remaining installed base of Windows XP users. Sometimes a program won’t work with new version of the OS, so companies won’t upgrade — maybe that program mfg is out of business — but the program still does what is needed. When comes to using a computer as a tool for a specific task the end-of-support is not a pronouncement of end of usefulness.

But of course, Taiko might make a completely new unit, more modern OS, who knows? My dCS Rossini DAC is going to require investment if I want it to be current with latest hardware (new announcements from dCS recently), but that is after a software upgrade a couple years ago to the existing hardware that cost nothing. In the digital world things are evolving, but again that won’t make the existing DAC perform worse than it does now, but does invite scrutiny to consider cost of upgrade vs the cost of trying something completely new.
 
Bobvin said:
Possibly, at some point in the future, there would be a need to move the entire server OS to a new version — but only if there is a sonic reason. I still run my UPS shipping software on an old PC running windows 7. Sure the OS isn’t supported anymore, but it does what it needs I am not running a lot of other programs dependent on the OS, just the UPS software. I have other computers too that still run windows 7 and some older Adobe apps, which also are not supported, but still work great.

Just because the OS isn’t supported does not make it stop working. There is even a remaining installed base of Windows XP users. Sometimes a program won’t work with new version of the OS, so companies won’t upgrade — maybe that program mfg is out of business — but the program still does what is needed. When comes to using a computer as a tool for a specific task the end-of-support is not a pronouncement of end of usefulness.
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Dus to safety reasons you cannot use an outdated OS which is not does not get the necessary updates.

Hackers wait with there attack until support is finished. You are very vulnerable when using unsupported OS systems, the hack tools are there, nobody is going to fix it anymore. One attack and you hang with your 32k costing Taiko.
 
Alkyogre said:
Dus to safety reasons you cannot use an outdated OS which is not does not get the necessary updates.

Hackers wait with there attack until support is finished. You are very vulnerable when using unsupported OS systems, the hack tools are there, nobody is going to fix it anymore. One attack and you hang with your 32k costing Taiko.
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Neither of your comments is true. Many people use outdated operating systems. While they may be more vulnerable to attacks, you can still use them. Plus, there are other lines of defense to keep away hackers.

Second, even if a computer is hacked it is not now unusable. If the Extreme (or any other computer) was hacked one could reload the OS and start new.

Having said all that, I don't think it is Taiko Audio's plan to run a server with an unsupported OS. The Extreme runs 2019 Windows LTSC. Its end of life is 2029. No need to panic yet.
 
Bobvin said:
Possibly, at some point in the future, there would be a need to move the entire server OS to a new version — but only if there is a sonic reason. I still run my UPS shipping software on an old PC running windows 7. Sure the OS isn’t supported anymore, but it does what it needs I am not running a lot of other programs dependent on the OS, just the UPS software. I have other computers too that still run windows 7 and some older Adobe apps, which also are not supported, but still work great.

Just because the OS isn’t supported does not make it stop working. There is even a remaining installed base of Windows XP users. Sometimes a program won’t work with new version of the OS, so companies won’t upgrade — maybe that program mfg is out of business — but the program still does what is needed. When comes to using a computer as a tool for a specific task the end-of-support is not a pronouncement of end of usefulness.

But of course, Taiko might make a completely new unit, more modern OS, who knows? My dCS Rossini DAC is going to require investment if I want it to be current with latest hardware (new announcements from dCS recently), but that is after a software upgrade a couple years ago to the existing hardware that cost nothing. In the digital world things are evolving, but again that won’t make the existing DAC perform worse than it does now, but does invite scrutiny to consider cost of upgrade vs the cost of trying something completely new.
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The biggest problem running old OS's on your network (I assume your shipping software has to be on your network to go online) is that they are a venerability, or an access point for the bad guys. These people look for these types of opening that lets then get into your systems... this is why there is always a minimal OS level allowed on any secure network. If it is an OS no longer supported, times being as they are, it should not be used for anything other then stand alone, not connected to your network...
 
Randy Myers said:
The biggest problem running old OS's on your network (I assume your shipping software has to be on your network to go online) is that they are a venerability, or an access point for the bad guys. These people look for these types of opening that lets then get into your systems... this is why there is always a minimal OS level allowed on any secure network. If it is an OS no longer supported, times being as they are, it should not be used for anything other then stand alone, not connected to your network...
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Yes and No, depends on what kind of firewalls are setup. But, this is more off topic than it ought to be.

Given Taiko's excellent levels of support and ongoing development, lets agree today's Extreme might some day in the future be eclipsed by something else, and it is possible there could come a time today's model might become obsolete (in terms of continued updates and support) but that it still might function fine. Behind a robust firewall it might continue to be a viable system. Or, they swap out your internals for something new for an upgrade price.

Technology marches on.
 
Bobvin said:
Yes and No, depends on what kind of firewalls are setup. But, this is more off topic than it ought to be.

Given Taiko's excellent levels of support and ongoing development, lets agree today's Extreme might some day in the future be eclipsed by something else, and it is possible there could come a time today's model might become obsolete (in terms of continued updates and support) but that it still might function fine. Behind a robust firewall it might continue to be a viable system. Or, they swap out your internals for something new for an upgrade price.

Technology marches on.
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Sorry, pc security is not off topic, it is a mayor part of using pc audio. Remember that as audio lovers alot of us have their stuff always on playing music, they are all day long online.

We have seen it with the end of support with windows xp. Right after it, a huge attack on old xp computers: wannacry ransomware. The only safe way is to remove the lan cable and stream offline from the SSD.

remind that 2029 is only 7 years away, for that amount of money it yearly costs you can also buy every year a high end streamer a Melco for instance.

Technology marches on, especially hackers have nowadays far more skills
 
In case any Taiko server owners have not added the latest updates from Emile, I urge you to do so. What an amazing improvement! Over on another forum, folks with spectacular systems are reporting this upgrade surpasses any component upgrade they’ve ever added to their system. Strong words for sure. Bravo Taiko!
 
Alkyogre said:
Sorry, pc security is not off topic, it is a mayor part of using pc audio. Remember that as audio lovers alot of us have their stuff always on playing music, they are all day long online.

We have seen it with the end of support with windows xp. Right after it, a huge attack on old xp computers: wannacry ransomware. The only safe way is to remove the lan cable and stream offline from the SSD.

remind that 2029 is only 7 years away, for that amount of money it yearly costs you can also buy every year a high end streamer a Melco for instance.

Technology marches on, especially hackers have nowadays far more skills
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As a certified computer security professional I concur with this assessment. Any piece of equipment attached to your network can be seen and is a potential risk regardless of firewall status. A firewall helps but it is definitely not a cure all. Any piece of hardware/software that is out of support increases your security vulnerability footprint. Never should a computer product that is out of support remain connected to a switch, router, WiFi, etc. It is just the opening that hackers are looking for.
 
u-sound said:
what exactely did get updated?
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From what I’ve understood (which is always questionable and subject to correction) there was a tweak to the OS related to multiple xeon cpu scalable servers, and a tweak to the USB drivers. The result is a not insignificant decrease in noise and dramatic improvement in sonic engagement.

Whatever DAC you own, it will sound much better with an Extreme server.
 
Randy Myers said:
As a certified computer security professional I concur with this assessment. Any piece of equipment attached to your network can be seen and is a potential risk regardless of firewall status. A firewall helps but it is definitely not a cure all. Any piece of hardware/software that is out of support increases your security vulnerability footprint. Never should a computer product that is out of support remain connected to a switch, router, WiFi, etc. It is just the opening that hackers are looking for.
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I agree completely with your comments. I am just not sure why this is being discussed in the Taiko Audio Extreme thread.
 
Someone brought up security in OS updates, etc., in regards to Taiko severs, and some less then secure ideas were put forth. Since they use a Windows based system it is worthy of discussion. This is neither a negative or positive since all OS's have vulnerabilities. Some like to say they don't (Apple), however all systems, weather Microsoft, Apple, or open source (Linux) have had issues in the past and should always be part of the calculation on your digital music configuration.
 
Randy Myers said:
Someone brought up security in OS updates, etc., in regards to Taiko severs, and some less then secure ideas were put forth. Since they use a Windows based system it is worthy of discussion. This is neither a negative or positive since all OS's have vulnerabilities. Some like to say they don't (Apple), however all systems, weather Microsoft, Apple, or open source (Linux) have had issues in the past and should always be part of the calculation on your digital music configuration.
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I see. I agree (again) about vulnerabilities. Anything with an OS is vulnerable. I am not sure why someone singled out Taiko Audio.
 
dminches said:
I see. I agree (again) about vulnerabilities. Anything with an OS is vulnerable. I am not sure why someone singled out Taiko Audio.
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It just came up in the discussion I believe. I don't think anyone was saying Taiko in particular has any more issues than others.
 
dminches said:
I see. I agree (again) about vulnerabilities. Anything with an OS is vulnerable. I am not sure why someone singled out Taiko Audio.
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I started this, because we have to realize that for a pc that costs 32k,which is alot of money, windows support ends in 2029, in my opinion a short period. However, as Mike stated: they give support for it.

Having said that: these Taiko's belong to the best pc's there are on the market.
 
I do not worry about Windows support ending. Microsoft is pretty much committed to either supporting of giving upgrade paths (usually for free) to virtually any machine that is still operating. The only exceptions have been for security measures forced by the bad guys out there. They sort of can't be blamed for that one. Yes, there is the occasional really old machine out there, that for some unknown reason still works, that the hardware simply is too antiquated. But that is a rare bird.

With that said it is a rare "computer" that is still in operation 7-8 years down the road. No matter how we want to look at it, a music server is in essence a computer... sure maybe souped up and/or specialized, but it is still a computer. Even though I would love a Taiko, it would be very hard to spend over $32K for a specialized computer knowing that it is not like other audio components that many times last for decades.

At their heart, how many true differences are there really in a pre-amp, an amplifier, a turntable, 7-8 years later? Sure there are tech improvements, but with few exceptions they are more or less refinements. With computer technology (and music server tech if we want to separate out the specialized computer breeds) the better question would be how many similarities are their 7-8 years later? Almost none.
 
Alkyogre said:
I started this, because we have to realize that for a pc that costs 32k,which is alot of money, windows support ends in 2029, in my opinion a short period. However, as Mike stated: they give support for it.

Having said that: these Taiko's belong to the best pc's there are on the market.
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Why are you saying the support ends in 2029? How do you know they won't provide an update to the OS before then? They just provided all owners with an OS update as well as a driver up, free of charge.
 
Just to add that the new software release for Taiko SGM Extreme produces results that are uncanny.
It actually changes my perspective on the importance of software in digital reproduction. Similar, noticeable though not as dramatic, improvement happened when I updated the firmware for MSB Select II.
Well done to Taiko.
Best, GN
 
GiorgioNuvolari said:
Just to add that the new software release for Taiko SGM Extreme produces results that are uncanny.
It actually changes my perspective on the importance of software in digital reproduction. Similar, noticeable though not as dramatic, improvement happened when I updated the firmware for MSB Select II.
Well done to Taiko.
Best, GN
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I've only had my server now for a few weeks. Not really even broken in yet. I emailed Emile the log in credentials and within an hour he'd completed the upgrade/patch. (Folks are calling it an upgrade, in the world of software I consider it more of a patch.) The sound quality improvement I hear is almost as great as I had adding the server itself.

For those who may have heard an Extreme and it didn't wow you... seek out a listen to one now. And this is using ROON. I am simply stunned a little tweak made this kind of difference.

I would think, in most environments, something with this kind of positive impact, would be held back until a way was found to monetize it. Hats off to team Taiko for dedicating the bandwidth to roll this out to their users.
 
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