Super Speaker Shootout - which design wins?

[a.wayne]

Perhaps for some members. Personally i've found Magico's latest generation of dynamic speakers have a mix of qualities which to my ears atleast, get closer to the seamless qaulity of pure ribbons, sound musical, and deliver accurate imaging and sound staging. I've listened to some uber hybrid horn systems which deliver a bigger sound stage, but with less accuracy and a less seamless/coherent whole. I don't doubt once you get up to Avantegarde Trio's with basshorns or Genesis 1.2's that things get a lot better. I'd hope so for the price! But i'd still be willing to bet the future M series replacement for the Q7 Mk2 will hold its own against any loudspeaker system in the world, just as my current S5 Mk2's do in their price bracket.

I don't doubt you have heard large horns with issues, being large or a Horn wont automatically make it a SOTA product.

As to standard boxfare , Have to disagree, remember we are discussing SOTA sound , Maybe Magico Horns compete at this level , their design intent is just that , but I'm not familiar with or know anyone i trust who have heard them , so i cannot comment on them. Any SOTA attempt at audio reproduction is of a different level from the typical WA or Magico sound which are all good sounding speakers in their own right and in the right setup can deliver 90% of the SOTA soundscape , of course SOTA sound /speakers will require dedicated space /Room and the right top notch ancillary equipment to deliver that last 10% , as previously discussed with MikeL about his SOTA attempt , its an Effort ..


IMO , most Magico , WA, Vandersteen , B&W , focal , Sonus Faber, et al are all laterals , each and all very capable of delivering a high level of reproduction and appealling to each prospective owner base on their listening preferences , room size/setup, looks , WAF and desired amplification ..

In otherwords their would be no Justification for an Ultimate, MM7's , WAMM , et al attempt if the others were of the same level ....



Regards

 

[Mordante]

Re: Dave Wilson's WAMM Master Chronosonic Loudspeaker Reaches For The Heavens

Who thinks it would be a cone & dome speaker?

My money would be on:

Magico Ultimate (horn)
Avantgarde Trio XD (horn) with 6 bass horns
MBL 101 xTreme (omnipolar)
Living Voice Vox Olympian (horn)

In the Vintage category: Western Electric (horn)
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/fucking-hell-western-electric-horns-silbatone-fun/


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While I agree with you that horns are very dynamic I disagree with you choice of speakers.

The speakers you mention are IMHO overly complicated. MBL has never figured out how to seamlessly integrate the sub unit with the omnidirectional units. Avantgarde has the same problem in the speakers I've heard from them.

Also IMHO more the 3way speakers often use very complicated filters that can, suck out the life of the music. There may be some speakers that dont have this problem.

Also horns with very long horns or transmission line speakers seems to have a bass that sounds delayed. Which is bad for dynamics and overall coherency.

I prefer speakers with a very good midrange driver that cover most of the normal audio range (voice range) with a tweeter that sounds detailed but not harsh. Something like a accuton diamond tweeter. For the low end something with enough oomph without being "slow" of too in your face.

 

[annapolis Raider]

Re: Dave Wilson's WAMM Master Chronosonic Loudspeaker Reaches For The Heavens

While I agree with you that horns are very dynamic I disagree with you choice of speakers.

The speakers you mention are IMHO overly complicated. MBL has never figured out how to seamlessly integrate the sub unit with the omnidirectional units. Avantgarde has the same problem in the speakers I've heard from them.

Also IMHO more the 3way speakers often use very complicated filters that can, suck out the life of the music. There may be some speakers that dont have this problem.

Also horns with very long horns or transmission line speakers seems to have a bass that sounds delayed. Which is bad for dynamics and overall coherency.

I prefer speakers with a very good midrange driver that cover most of the normal audio range (voice range) with a tweeter that sounds detailed but not harsh. Something like a accuton diamond tweeter. For the low end something with enough oomph without being "slow" of too in your face.

Sounds like a nomination for the Tidal Akira

 

[a.wayne]

Since this is a discussion about SOTA speakers i will have to disagree and say a high thd small 2 way system will not reach the level of performance being discussed ....


Regards

 

[Priaptor]

Since this is a discussion about SOTA speakers i will have to disagree and say a high thd small 2 way system will not reach the level of performance being discussed ....


Regards

Very true BUT a large full range speaker that IS capable of the intimacy and spatial detail of a "small 2 way speaker" is a very special speaker indeed. I haven't read all the posts on this thread as we all have our opinions as to SOTA and I'm not here to claim I'm right and others wrong but from my perch the best SOTA speaker is the one I can live with forever and rarely (not never) be tempted by other speakers no matter how good they may sound at shows, in demos, in dealer showrooms, etc.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Since this is a discussion about SOTA speakers i will have to disagree and say a high thd small 2 way system will not reach the level of performance being discussed ....

Regards

Very true BUT a large full range speaker that IS capable of the intimacy and spatial detail of a "small 2 way speaker" is a very special speaker indeed. I haven't read all the posts on this thread as we all have our opinions as to SOTA and I'm not here to claim I'm right and others wrong but from my perch the best SOTA speaker is the one I can live with forever and rarely (not never) be tempted by other speakers no matter how good they may sound at shows, in demos, in dealer showrooms, etc.

mostly the limitations to find that intimacy are the person and level of commitment......

I think the whole idea of optimization of a 'super speaker' speaks to this intimacy issue. where the most delicate intimate musical nuance is nailed by the 'super speaker system'. which is why just acquiring some huge expensive speaker is maybe the easiest part of the equation.

I was in my dedicated room for 10 years, and owned my MM7 'uber' speakers for 2 years, before I had a sense in my mind of how to reach this intimacy. and then it took another 2 years of work after that. it's not just having all the right pieces. I had to grow myself a long way to find the way.

but; when you do have pieces that have essentially no restrictions physically, then the world of possibilities is open to you. and less able pieces do have limitations.

 

[Mordante]

Since this is a discussion about SOTA speakers i will have to disagree and say a high thd small 2 way system will not reach the level of performance being discussed ....


Regards

Not saying you are wrong, but neither are you correct.

Speakers like the Blumenhofer Grand Gioia are maybe not the ultimate. But it does do a few things very right. Same can be said for the Raidho D1.2.

SOTA does not mean the most expensive. Magico sounds good but way overpriced.

 

[metaphacts]

Since this is a discussion about SOTA speakers i will have to disagree and say a high thd small 2 way system will not reach the level of performance being discussed ....


Regards

Agreed. A speaker that does not play low bass fundamentals and does not have anything approaching broadband (that pesky bass again) dynamic linearity, cannot be that singular Super Speaker.

 

[Melbguy1]

Magico sounds good but way overpriced.

 

[a.wayne]

mostly the limitations to find that intimacy are the person and level of commitment......

I think the whole idea of optimization of a 'super speaker' speaks to this intimacy issue. where the most delicate intimate musical nuance is nailed by the 'super speaker system'. which is why just acquiring some huge expensive speaker is maybe the easiest part of the equation.

I was in my dedicated room for 10 years, and owned my MM7 'uber' speakers for 2 years, before I had a sense in my mind of how to reach this intimacy. and then it took another 2 years of work after that. it's not just having all the right pieces. I had to grow myself a long way to find the way.

but; when you do have pieces that have essentially no restrictions physically, then the world of possibilities is open to you. and less able pieces do have limitations.

Precisely MikeL and most will never understand unless educated and exposed .....

 

[Mike]

I'm looking forward to hearing this super system again. Speakers are new. Peak Consult.


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[a.wayne]

Not saying you are wrong, but neither are you correct.

Speakers like the Blumenhofer Grand Gioia are maybe not the ultimate. But it does do a few things very right. Same can be said for the Raidho D1.2.

SOTA does not mean the most expensive. Magico sounds good but way overpriced.

SOTA is not about cost, the cost is inherent in what is necessary to achieve and BTW declaring Magico products overpriced is very Ironic, seeing how that claim can be levied at every single audio product currently in discussion on AS..

Overpriced to whom ...

 

[a.wayne]

I'm looking forward to hearing this super system again. Speakers are new. Peak Consult.


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Looks capable , reminds me of Duntech and later on Dunleavy Speakers ............

 

[bonzo]

Even Blumrnhofer are not claiming the gran goia is the best, it has two models above it

 

[the professor]

Prices outside the US do get pretty expensive.

SOTA is not about cost, the cost is inherent in what is necessary to achieve and BTW declaring Magico products overpriced is very Ironic, seeing how that claim can be levied at every single audio product currently in discussion on AS..

Overpriced to whom ...

 

[Mordante]

sorry

SOTA is not about cost, the cost is inherent in what is necessary to achieve and BTW declaring Magico products overpriced is very Ironic, seeing how that claim can be levied at every single audio product currently in discussion on AS..

Overpriced to whom ...

dealers. The most basic Magico costs if I'm not mistaken 24 to 25k euro. IMHO the S1 is not worth that.

Even Blumrnhofer are not claiming the gran goia is the best, it has two models above it

I know, not sure if they sound better though. Especially the top model with the long horns. How do keep it sounding coherent and more or less time aligned when you have horns that long.

 

[bonzo]

sorry



dealers. The most basic Magico costs if I'm not mistaken 24 to 25k euro. IMHO the S1 is not worth that.



I know, not sure if they sound better though. Especially the top model with the long horns. How do keep it sounding coherent and more or less time aligned when you have horns that long.

Horns sound best big. Small horns are best for keeping family pictures

 

[mep]

Not saying you are wrong, but neither are you correct.

Speakers like the Blumenhofer Grand Gioia are maybe not the ultimate. But it does do a few things very right. Same can be said for the Raidho D1.2.

SOTA does not mean the most expensive. Magico sounds good but way overpriced.

What are you basing that statement on? Compared to many other speakers, the cost of materials used in Magico speakers and the labor involved in machining those materials is way more expensive than building standard six sided MDF boxes. These are designed and manufactured in the U.S. with the exception that parts of the drivers have to make some stops in foreign countries for assembly. I firmly believe that Magico lives at the edge of the art for dynamic speaker systems and the costs are proportionate to the materials used.

 

[Mordante]

What are you basing that statement on? Compared to many other speakers, the cost of materials used in Magico speakers and the labor involved in machining those materials is way more expensive than building standard six sided MDF boxes. These are designed and manufactured in the U.S. with the exception that parts of the drivers have to make some stops in foreign countries for assembly. I firmly believe that Magico lives at the edge of the art for dynamic speaker systems and the costs are proportionate to the materials used.

I don't want to enter this kind of discussion. But I cannot see how a 24k S1 or 55k S5 price tag for these speakers can be justified. That is for the basic colour. A special paint job adds in case of the S5 another 7k euro.

But this topic is not about Magic.

 

[a.wayne]

Again value is gained by the one writing the Cheque , any conversation on what something is worth will always be open ended ...


Regards