Suggestions needed for a vinyl newbie

Rob

I am going to be different to a point. I would recommend your favorite the AT-120LP, the AT-120E/T and the ART. If he lived closer, then I could outfit him with better for less, but if he wants to buy new that is my pick. I would stay away from any of the lower priced belt drives that need an external speed controller and the 2M-Red in particular as it sounds to me like a poorly done CD.
 
Jack said:
Rob

I am going to be different to a point. I would recommend your favorite the AT-120LP, the AT-120E/T and the ART. If he lived closer, then I could outfit him with better for less, but if he wants to buy new that is my pick. I would stay away from any of the lower priced belt drives that need an external speed controller and the 2M-Red in particular as it sounds to me like a poorly done CD.
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LOL..I agree...but had to give him some choices...Thanks Jack..

Hey Matt,

To be honest..until you get to about the 1K price range, Jack is right. Go with the ATLP120, replace the cart it comes with the AT120E and get the ART DJ Pre...

Amazon.com: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Direct-Drive Professional Turntable (USB & Analog): Electronics

So your total cost will be about 379 (232 table, 47 Pre, 100 cart)...The AT120 has 3 speeds, quartz lock direct drive and manual speed, strobe, very cool...

I have one as a secondary table ..(see pictures) ...Oh and throw in $25 to get a supermat (the AT comes with a felt mat but the supermat is better)

557896_610941698921296_258148767_n.jpg


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Not a fan of lower end belt drives at all. Still have a mint Rega Planar 3 that was the top of the Rega line a decade ago and the darling of the Audiophile press, especially Fremer. After owning a B&O 8002 for almost 20years this was the biggest disappointment of my analog journey. Speed was never correct to my ears and to this day it sits on my spare TT shelf unit with less than 500hrs. I refuse to buy "extras" to make it sound correct. The Planar 3 is multiple steps above the current bottom of the line belt drive offerings, so to expect them to keep accurate speed without outside assistance would be a pipe dream.
 
Ok, so you've got my interest in the AT-LP120, but what's the deal with the black one on Amazon? I really like the way it looks but that is the only one I've been able to find. A-T's site doesn't even list a black one. Any ideas?

The other thing I had a question about was that I have a Oppo BDP-83 SE Nuforce edition. It was one of those right place right time buys that I normally would have been only able to dream about. Are these entry level turntables going to sound awful compared to it?
 
The AT black on Amazon; you mean the DJ one?

* The 16 million dollars question! It's all relative; the BDP-83SE is a sweet digital player.
And with like anything in life, what you feed your cat with makes part of what he is. ;)

If you play bad LP recordings on a $500 analog rig; it will sound most likely real bad to your own ears.
And the same on your $1,000 digital rig with some bad CD music recordings.

The music (software) is more important than the gear (hardware). ...For me it is.

___________________

I can buy excellent digital music recordings (CD/SACD/Blu-rayAudio) from record labels like Channel Classics, Reference Recordings, ECM, AudioQuest, APO, DG, FIM, 2L, digital hi-res audio files (downloads), etc. for roughly between $20 and $40 (Canadian dollars).
But quality LPs would run me between $25 and $60 Cdn.
{Yeah, you can buy used CDs and records, but with used records usually come a penalty; dirt.}

And! For a roughly $1,000 digital stereo rig I can get further in sound quality than a $1,000 analog stereo rig playing similar quality music recordings. ...From my personal experience coming through my ears.
...Need further exploration though, to be totally/openly honest; in both analog and digital domain.

So many variables; maintenance, cleaning, calibrating, setting up, music playing, and long term effects and financial wisdom.
You can be plenty satisfy with both analog and digital. Best; get both and explore both worlds to the limit, your own limit.
And most important; have fun while doing it and listening.

I feel a bit stupid saying this because it seems to be quite obvious to most of us, and the music recordings you purchase is the most important investment of them all.
But that is your choice and yours only. Pick your weapon(s), and buy the best ammunition. ...The stuff that will hit its intended target.

Matt, just find a friend who has an analog rig, and bring a six-pack or bottle of wine over to his/her place, and chat with him/her while listening to few LPs from the music you love. ...That'll give you a better idea, I think.

Where's your main interest, relative to your music collection? Is it worthy to have both systems, or preferable to pursue one but one further?

I can easily write a book, but I won't. :D

P.S. For a car I prefer a black one over a silver one... ;)
 
Just to clarify ...The ATLP120 is silver. The ATLP1240 is black BUT costs more however; it is considered a very good table (better specs, etc.) and considered a Super OEM table. Here is just one review.

Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB Turntable Review

As to vinyl vs. CD ...you cant really compare. They are different sounds. CD is digital. Vinyl is pure analog. Noise and quality of the vinyl medium may not be as quiet as a CD. Its not so much about which sounds better, its about which you like, enjoying the hobby, etc.

It would be like asking which sounds better - Tubes or Solid State. Solid State may be precise. Tubes may sound warmer and natural. But in the end its what you like.
 
Jack said:
Not a fan of lower end belt drives at all. Still have a mint Rega Planar 3 that was the top of the Rega line a decade ago and the darling of the Audiophile press, especially Fremer. After owning a B&O 8002 for almost 20years this was the biggest disappointment of my analog journey. Speed was never correct to my ears and to this day it sits on my spare TT shelf unit with less than 500hrs. I refuse to buy "extras" to make it sound correct. The Planar 3 is multiple steps above the current bottom of the line belt drive offerings, so to expect them to keep accurate speed without outside assistance would be a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. When I was doing vinyl I was using vintage TTs. There is a dealer near me that carries the Rega line and I was looking for another TT at the time. He demoed a few of them for me, but we did not go beyond $1000 initial cost. I was not so sure that my old Pioneer 510 was not better so the dealer had me bring it in for a head to head. Mind you, it was direct drive vs belt, but he had me do it anyway because he believes belt wins every time. The Regas lost to the surprise of both the dealer and myself. The old Pioneer just sounded a bit better and more stable than the entry level Regas. That's when I learned what you mentioned. I found that I could get a $700 Rega, but I would have to throw another $600 to $900 for a kit with an "upgraded" tonearm, cartridge and belts. (no regulator). So why spend $1300 to $1600 for an entry level belt drive TT? For that bread one can get a great vintage table and have enough left over for 50 to 60 new records or 200 to 300 used ones or something or perhaps an RCM at that amount of money!
 
ohbythebay said:
Just to clarify ...The ATLP120 is silver. The ATLP1240 is black BUT costs more however; it is considered a very good table (better specs, etc.) and considered a Super OEM table. Here is just one review.

Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB Turntable Review

As to vinyl vs. CD ...you cant really compare. They are different sounds. CD is digital. Vinyl is pure analog. Noise and quality of the vinyl medium may not be as quiet as a CD. Its not so much about which sounds better, its about which you like, enjoying the hobby, etc.

It would be like asking which sounds better - Tubes or Solid State. Solid State may be precise. Tubes may sound warmer and natural. But in the end its what you like.
Click to expand...

Yes, the whole vinyl vs CD argument has to be the stupidest of all time. Both have their merits and downsides. You can have great sounding and terrible sounding vinyl records and great sounding and terrible sounding CDs. Sure, records are warmer due to the fact they are analog and non-compressed sort of. CDs tend to sound more sterile, but can still sound good. Some stuff on vinyl is not available on CD. Some stuff just sounds better on CD and some sounds better on vinyl, there is no hard fast rule. It's all in the ears of the beholder.
 
Some Denon TTs are very good, Pioneer too, Technics as well, Dual, Concord, Astro, Fisher, Marantz, ...

* Some people at some audio forums are in epiphany preaching the beautiful merits of analog vinyl.
It is so much superior in emotional wisdom and in close relationship with the realistic world surrounding us.
I agree with them people. ...And digital was just a bad invention in trying to simplifying further our already simple and beautiful life.
That was all done in the interest of financial profit for Sony. ...We know the tune; CD is forever.

Yeah Matt, get the most expensive turntable you can afford (a black one) to spin your black records, and don't look back.
Don't forget a good mat. ;)
 
NorthStar said:
* Some people at some audio forums are in epiphany preaching the beautiful merits of analog vinyl.
It is so much superior in emotional wisdom and in close relationship with the realistic world surrounding us.
I agree with them people. ...And digital was just a bad invention in trying to simplifying further our already simple and beautiful life.
That was all done in the interest of financial profit for Sony. ...We know the tune; CD is forever.

;)
Click to expand...

CD a bad invention?....Not necessarily. More importantly, it's the music itself, no matter the media form that is the emotional wisdom and in close relationship with the realistic world that surrounds us.
 
ohbythebay said:
Hey..I heard my name...LOL

Let me offer this first...Define a budget.

You will need:
Turntable
Cartridge
Phone Pre

So based on the budget you give me, I can help. Base minimum (recommend) will be $500 - But you are talking low end - Above the Walmart Crosleys and such but definitely ENTRY ENTRY level.

Get a budget of say $1500 and we can really move up the chain. Get the idea ? LET US KNOW !!
Click to expand...


I me myself take full credit for directing Rob here.
 
Bob, I wish I could go over to a friend's house and listen to their turntable but alas, I am the only person that I know who is into audio. The little bit that I have been exposed to listening to a nice turntable was two songs on a 10k TT in a showroom and the few rooms that were playing music from a TT at Axpona this last spring. I guess the good thing that I can take away from my short listening sessions is that I enjoyed the sound; and that's what this hobby is about for me more than format, ect..

As far as the elusive black one that a seller had on Amazon, I think I figured it out. It definitely wasn't a AT-LP1240 but I believe it was a Reloop RP4000M3D which looks almost identical to the AT-LP120. I asked them if it indeed was a a 120 and they said it was and it was in a sealed box. I went back to check it out and they had pulled the listing down. The picture they had of it was playing a record so I couldn't see if the mat had the big Audio-Technica across it.

While on the subject of the mat, are you guys talking about the 1/4" Kab Supermat?

I did manage to score a new Art DJPRE II last night for $34.50 shipped so I've got that part out of the way. :woot:

I'm going to keep an eye out for a sale on the AT-LP120 and in the meantime do some more research.
 
Matt715 said:
Bob, I wish I could go over to a friend's house and listen to their turntable but alas, I am the only person that I know who is into audio. The little bit that I have been exposed to listening to a nice turntable was two songs on a 10k TT in a showroom and the few rooms that were playing music from a TT at Axpona this last spring. I guess the good thing that I can take away from my short listening sessions is that I enjoyed the sound; and that's what this hobby is about for me more than format, ect..

As far as the elusive black one that a seller had on Amazon, I think I figured it out. It definitely wasn't a AT-LP1240 but I believe it was a Reloop RP4000M3D which looks almost identical to the AT-LP120. I asked them if it indeed was a a 120 and they said it was and it was in a sealed box. I went back to check it out and they had pulled the listing down. The picture they had of it was playing a record so I couldn't see if the mat had the big Audio-Technica across it.

While on the subject of the mat, are you guys talking about the 1/4" Kab Supermat?

I did manage to score a new Art DJPRE II last night for $34.50 shipped so I've got that part out of the way. :woot:

I'm going to keep an eye out for a sale on the AT-LP120 and in the meantime do some more research.
Click to expand...

Matt,

Your not going to see much lower than the Amazon price BUT there might be a thanksgiving sale. Honestly, for the money, you cant ask for better - Note - I said for the money. Its no $1000 turntable but it is a great started table for you without being a cheap thing.

I wrote a thread on another thread on some tweaks to make it better (the Super mat, extra weight on the counterweight, etc). Addresses what people would say is a drawback and eliminates them

A few things. To properly set it up you need two tools.

A gram scale
A protractor

The gram scale is so you set the tracking weight correctly (you cant just go by the dial)

The protractor is for the alignment. The cartridge comes pre-mounted but I can tell you for sure, it was wrong.

Gram scale sample
300g x 0 01g Mini Digital Jewelry Pocket Gram Scale LCD | eBay

Baerwald protractor
Amazon.com: Turntable Phono Cartridge Stylus Alignment Protractor Tool Mirror: Electronics

Bet you didn;t know the hobby required tools...LOL
 
Matt715 said:
Bob, I wish I could go over to a friend's house and listen to their turntable but alas, I am the only person that I know who is into audio. The little bit that I have been exposed to listening to a nice turntable was two songs on a 10k TT in a showroom and the few rooms that were playing music from a TT at Axpona this last spring. I guess the good thing that I can take away from my short listening sessions is that I enjoyed the sound; and that's what this hobby is about for me more than format, ect..

I did manage to score a new Art DJPRE II last night for $34.50 shipped so I've got that part out of the way. :woot:

I'm going to keep an eye out for a sale on the AT-LP120 and in the meantime do some more research.
Click to expand...

Wow! Same here, I'm the only one in my province that is into audio or even knows what a stereo is! The people in my local reach have never seen a system much less have any interest in audio at all. If it's not on a phone or a TV, they aren't interested.

Good job on snagging that ART DJPRE for that price! That is a great start in the preamp world.
 
Jack said:
This is the best scale you are going to find for the money and free s&h. Also has non magnetic platform and low profile platform. First is important for MC cartridges and the latter just lets you remove the mat and set it on the platter and you are at the height of an lp with the mat on.


Digital Precision Scale with Leather Case (5g Max / 0.01g Resolution) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
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I have one like that also...any will do for this purpose...I would not recommend an MC cart on the AT...LOL
 
Jack said:
This is the best scale you are going to find for the money and free s&h. Also has non magnetic platform and low profile platform. First is important for MC cartridges and the latter just lets you remove the mat and set it on the platter and you are at the height of an lp with the mat on.


Digital Precision Scale with Leather Case (5g Max / 0.01g Resolution) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
Click to expand...

Indeed. This is the one I was using only I got mine off amazon for around $14.
 
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