Puma Cat
Well-known member
Ah, sorry, thanks for letting me know. It may have been a website formatting error. Here is it is in URL form. Cheers.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386
Streamer selection
- Thread starter Mikado463
- Start date
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Cheers, Dave. Again, that white paper by John Swenson is very informative. It's a great place to start with respect to leaning about the functional requirements behind streaming and music server-based digital music playback.Stephen, as someone completely new to the streaming side of things, thanks for the detailed explanations !
sleepysurf
Member
One more point I didn't mention.
I use LMS (Lyrion Music Server) running on my office Win 11 laptop for streaming local files (FLAC). Due to a broken ethernet port there (inaccessible for repair) I've had to use a TP Link wireless mesh router there for network access. The Wiim Ultra, in my listening room, has wired ethernet via a basic TP Link switch.
I can't discern any difference in fidelity between Mesh WiFi sourced music from the laptop, vs. Qobuz (wired network). I attribute that to an apparently large memory cache in the Ultra, along with asynchronous USB reclocking in the Topping DAC, along with a suprisingly good analog output stage from the Topping (feeding my C-J CT5 preamp).
NewAlkyogre
Active member
Very informative. if there are some funds for it. A lot of things I knew before, the story of the switch clock and the receiving clock causing ground plane noise is new. Here this etherregen can help, think I should give it a try.
Something to be said about the leak current: Might be familiar for most of us, but I measure always the Voltage at the analog output before using it. On my equipment I measure a 5 times higher Voltage on the analog output when the plug is placed wrong in the power strip. An improvement that does not cost anything.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Hans Beekhuyzen's review of the EtherREGEN back in the day is very good; accurate and informative.
- Thread Author
- #167
Update..........
after as much patience as I could muster(along with a dram or two of whisky) I've routed an ethernet cable from router to streamer and Viola ! no more drop outs !! Funny thing is after I finished one of my coffee clutch buddies who's far more computer savvy than I said, 'why didn't you just reboot both the streamer and router first' !! LOL !!
after as much patience as I could muster(along with a dram or two of whisky) I've routed an ethernet cable from router to streamer and Viola ! no more drop outs !! Funny thing is after I finished one of my coffee clutch buddies who's far more computer savvy than I said, 'why didn't you just reboot both the streamer and router first' !! LOL !!
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Great news, Dave. Just a note that adding an EtherREGEN between your router and streamer will provide a notable improvement in audio quality. That paper I cited by John Swenson and Hans B’s review will substantiate this. Also, I’d recommend using a Shunyata Gamma Ethernet cable between router and streamer. Adding these two will really raise the audio quality quite a bit.
Just something to keep in mind. Cheers.
Just something to keep in mind. Cheers.
TopCat
New member
My source preference has for a long time been CD’s. My K-03XD met the need just fine! However I like the flexibility of streaming where all I have to do is enter a few keystrokes on my iPad, so I have been seeking the best sound over the past couple years.
I started with a Bluesound Node using a generic Ethernet cable shared with several endpoints, then moved to a Lumin D2, and still said I’ll stick with my CD’s. However, what I read on this and other forums made me believe I can do better. Rather than purchasing a high-dollar piece I may not really want, I decided to try a more simplistic approach!
I sit here today with a dedicated WireWorld Ethernet cable feeding an eitherREGEN unit feeding a Sonore OpticalRENDU/LPS using a In-Akustik Reference USB cable to feed into a T+A DAC 200. Now, I can say to my 77 year old ears, the music produced is really close to CD quality. Now I can listen to most anything I want without leaving my listening chair!
I started with a Bluesound Node using a generic Ethernet cable shared with several endpoints, then moved to a Lumin D2, and still said I’ll stick with my CD’s. However, what I read on this and other forums made me believe I can do better. Rather than purchasing a high-dollar piece I may not really want, I decided to try a more simplistic approach!
I sit here today with a dedicated WireWorld Ethernet cable feeding an eitherREGEN unit feeding a Sonore OpticalRENDU/LPS using a In-Akustik Reference USB cable to feed into a T+A DAC 200. Now, I can say to my 77 year old ears, the music produced is really close to CD quality. Now I can listen to most anything I want without leaving my listening chair!
- Thread Author
- #170
Holly Molly Joe, I've never seen that many remotes for one system ! I counted 9 !!
Well, while you no longer need to get out of your listening chair at least your thumb gets a work out !
Nice looking and I trust sounding 'bit of kit' !
Well, while you no longer need to get out of your listening chair at least your thumb gets a work out !
Nice looking and I trust sounding 'bit of kit' !
- Thread Author
- #171
Stephen, again thanks for the tips and suggestions. For now I need to get comfortable with the current set up so as to establish a benchmark with regards to the sound, before I try any upgrades or add-ons. Considering the fact that the EtherREGEN device is more than twice what I payed for my streamer it had better yield a real improvement. I suppose I'll have to check and see if it is returnable ?
TopCat
New member
Yes Dave, it sounds good to me! Most of the remotes don’t get used much, only the Pass Labs & Esoteric, plus the iPad of course. There is a 77” LG hiding behind the drapes which I occasionally pull aside to watch, hence the DirecTV remote. One of the remotes is actually for a Peachtree Nova class D which I have sitting off the side, which doesn’t sound too bad either. I think it’s a well kept secret!
NewAlkyogre
Active member
There are more brands then only this one. There might be cheaper or better alternatives beside etherregen.
If i look to the specs the clock they use costs just 20 euro.
I think that you are taking the right approach by waiting and enjoying what you already have. This is hard to do for many audiophiles who were raised in the analog world where so many variables affected the sound.
If you want to optimize, it’s better to focus on factors like room acoustics or speaker setup rather than tweaking the digital chain.
NewAlkyogre
Active member
I absolutely disagree with that. The digital chain is very important
- Thread Author
- #176
I suspect what nicoff was referring to was to get ones speakers and their environment dialed in 'first', to which there is NO disagreement with that !
FWIW, mine are
NewAlkyogre
Active member
Every part in the chain need to be in good shape. If the input is bad, the output sounds terrible. For that reason: Invest first in a good source.I suspect what nicoff was referring to was to get ones speakers and their environment dialed in 'first', to which there is NO disagreement with that !
FWIW, mine are
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Not at it's price point of only $680. As for the generic networking-industry Ethernet switches, e.g. TP-link, etc., they all have junk RJ45 connectors, cr*p word clocks and PHY chips in them, and generally don't support optical connectivity. They're also powered by really nasty switch-mode power supplies, which is another major source of audible noise components.
Moreover, other Ethernet switches do not have or use the proprietary moat (the ADIM™, the Active Differential Isolation Moat) that was designed by John Swenson specifically for EtherREGEN, nor the same quality PHY chips.
Here are some other key features that EtherREGEN uses that are not available from other brands or generic Ethernet swtiches:
- EtherREGEN has two isolated data/power/clock domains. Each isolated domain is re-clocked using 10GHz-capable ultra-low-jitter (less than 0.8 picoseconds) differential flip-flops.
- The clocking system runs from an advanced, programmable, jitter-attenuating clock synthesizer with four differential outputs. It is referenced to an ultra-low-jitter/phase-noise Crystek CCHD-575 oscillator. Importantly, the clock distribution system (for the switch chip, the special Ethernet format conversion chips, and the high-speed flip-flops) is run differentially throughout. Special conversion buffers are positioned just millimeters from chips that require single-ended clocks.
- The magnetics of the four Gigabit ‘A’-side ports are a special design. UpTone chose an RJ45 module that utilizes 12 transformer cores in each port (most Ethernet ports have 2~6 cores), and ground their center-taps through capacitors in a way that blocks port-to-port AC leakage currents.
- To support its performance, the power networks of the EtherREGEN are as sophisticated and costly as the rest of the design. UpTone uses 12 of the world’s lowest-noise, lowest-impedance integrated voltage regulators—the famous Linear Technology LT3045 and LT3042. Supporting both the voltage regulators and the data chips are 195 low-inductance, X7R and X5R capacitors sized and selected by their derating curves.
Also, most other Ethernet switches do not support connectivity via fiber which really is best type of connection for longer connection runs, nor do they have a proper chassis-ground terminal, which can be connected to a Shunyata Altaira or Gemini ground-plane noise reduction hub for another notable increase in audio quality.
There are other high-end audio grade Ethernet switches available, e.g. the Silent Angel Bonn N8, which I've had in-house and wrote a review for. It's an excellent Ethernet switch for high-end audio use, but the Bonn N8 sells for 1600 bucks, and it still doesn't have a fiber SFP optical port.
Cheers.
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TopCat
New member
As my streaming system evolved, I believe two biggest improvements came from adding the etherREGEN & a quality LPS for the opticalRENDU. I'm sure the fiber helped, but to my ears the biggest jump came from these two things. As for cost, given my investment so far, these don't seem pricey for the results I received!