Streamer selection

[nicoff]

Thanks Randy, since my only real use will be for streaming navigation I'm guessing processor demands would be minimal ?

I use both Apple and Windows computers. Apple has the advantage that it controls both the software and the equipment resulting in better integration between their products.

That said, since you are not currently in the Apple ecosystem, you can choose any tablet since all of them work with your Wiim.

I have an 11” iPad Pro with an ancient processor by today’s standards (it is about 7 years old) and it still works flawlessly with the WiiM. So I would think that ANY tablet with a current processor will do the trick.

If you are playing via Bluetooth or AirPlay, then you must keep the tablet on. But if you are streaming via your network using a music service (like Spotify, Qobuz, etc.), once you send the command (like play a certain playlist) you can actually turn off the tablet and the music keeps playing because it is processed by the music service provider and not in the tablet.

 

[Randy Myers]

Thanks Randy, since my only real use will be for streaming navigation I'm guessing processor demands would be minimal ?

Quality CPU usage will make somewhat of a difference. Even getting to an Intel i3 is consider important. In my view, Atom processors are not worth getting for something that you should expect to last you for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mikado463]

But if you are streaming via your network using a music service (like Spotify, Qobuz, etc.), once you send the command (like play a certain playlist) you can actually turn off the tablet and the music keeps playing because it is processed by the music service provider and not in the tablet.

This , just got back from picking up my Lenovo from BB, it's charging now, so wish me luck !

Worst case scenario I'm out $79..............

 

[Randy Myers]

It will hopefully do all that you need. In my view the Lenovo Android tablet is a better choice then paying many times more for even the most basic Apple and dealing with trying to make it work with other gear, or giving up your soul to Apple .

At a show a couple years ago I was helping my friend EJ out in his room. He had an Apple iPad and I had an Android tablet. Both of us were able to connect to his server and control Roon that was running on it just fine. Either of us could change the music, start and stop, etc. He actually pad 4x more for a mini (itty bitty) iPad then I did for the full size Samsung tablet ...

 

[Mikado463]

Randy, so far the Lenovo is working perfectly and the size(9 inches) is perfect in my view. I can fit it in the palm of my hand and the ease of use and legibility is much better than my smart phone

 

[Randy Myers]

Randy, so far the Lenovo is working perfectly and the size(9 inches) is perfect in my view. I can fit it in the palm of my hand and the ease of use and legibility is much better than my smart phone

And that my friend is what matters! I am glad you got what you needed without having to spend an arm and a leg (and selling your soul to Apple ).

 

[nicoff]

Randy, so far the Lenovo is working perfectly and the size(9 inches) is perfect in my view. I can fit it in the palm of my hand and the ease of use and legibility is much better than my smart phone

Six months ago when you started this thread, you were about to venture into the world of streaming.
Now that you have tried it out, how does this new experience feel to you?

 

[Mikado463]

Six months ago when you started this thread, you were about to venture into the world of streaming.
Now that you have tried it out, how does this new experience feel to you?

For the most part I'll say 'good'. I do get the occasional glitch (my streamer is wirelessly connected to the router) which can be annoying but overall the ease of playback is nice. I have yet to switch to the DAC in my SACD player, probably try that next month. The ability to read tid-bits off the tablet about the artist while listening is a nice touch(Qobuz is my streaming service).

Going forward I see this format as a great avenue for discovering new music and new releases from artists / genres that I already follow. Regardless, I still get enjoyment from my physical media, wether it be Lp or CD/SACD.

 

[nicoff]

For the most part I'll say 'good'. I do get the occasional glitch (my streamer is wirelessly connected to the router) which can be annoying but overall the ease of playback is nice. I have yet to switch to the DAC in my SACD player, probably try that next month. The ability to read tid-bits off the tablet about the artist while listening is a nice touch(Qobuz is my streaming service).

Going forward I see this format as a great avenue for discovering new music and new releases from artists / genres that I already follow. Regardless, I still get enjoyment from my physical media, wether it be Lp or CD/SACD.

That’s great to hear. Agree that connecting via WiFi can be annoying as WiFi issues seem to pop up when least expected. You might want to consider connecting the router to a network switch and then connect the WiiM to your network switch. That will give a wired Ethernet connection.

Agree with you that streaming should not prevent you from listening to physical media that you already own.

I bet your son is happy to see what you have done. (Who knows, he might even consider switching to the WiiM streamer!).

Well done!!

 

[Mikado463]

Thanks, I'll have to look into this 'network switch' idea, whatever that is, LOL ! Remember I'm a Neanderthal ......

 

[Puma Cat]

Thanks, I'll have to look into this 'network switch' idea, whatever that is, LOL ! Remember I'm a Neanderthal ......

Dave, if you need to set up a network switch at some point, feel free to reach out via PM, I can help you with respect to recommendations for your requirements and solutions that best meet those requirements. Just to provide some context, I wrote the review in TAS for the EtherREGEN audio-quality Ethernet swtich, so I have a fair bit of experience in this domain. Cheers.

 

[Bones13]

@Puma Cat have you any inside knowledge about the state of development of the etherRegen 2.0?

 

[Puma Cat]

@Puma Cat have you any inside knowledge about the state of development of the etherRegen 2.0?

No, I don’t have any inside knowledge, just what Alex Crespi has posted publicly about EtherREGEN 2.0 development at UpTone. My understanding is they’re sourcing and obtaining all the new parts and components for ER2.0 and currently plan to launch some time around April 2025. Here’s a quote from Alex at UpTone:

“We are still hard at work on EtherREGEN Gen2—utilizing more readily available parts and incorporating a number of technical advancements. These include Gigabit capability on both the ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides of our unique active-differential-isolation moat, even lower jitter clock synthesizers, new PHY chips, and the world’s best sine-to-square wave converter (benefiting those who chose to pair with an external 10MHz reference clock). The new version will even include a second SFP cage—on the ‘B’ side—to improve performance for users of optical endpoints. As of September 10, 2024 a challenging engineering puzzle--with the new high-performance, low-jitter PHY chip that we have chosen--has been solved at long last! Now we can finally move forward with the "unified" design, bringing all elements together. However, one more development board must be finished before we can produce a final set of pre-production/beta boards. This progression will take a few more months--therefore we now expect first shipment of EtherREGEN Gen2 will not take place until April 2025.”

Looks like ER2.0 will be quite and improvement and something I’m particularly pleased to read is it will have SFP optical cages on both A-side and B-side.

​

 

[Mikado463]

Dave, if you need to set up a network switch at some point, feel free to reach out via PM, I can help you with respect to recommendations for your requirements and solutions that best meet those requirements. Just to provide some context, I wrote the review in TAS for the EtherREGEN audio-quality Ethernet swtich, so I have a fair bit of experience in this domain. Cheers.

Thanks Stephen, I appreciate that

 

[Randy Myers]

Thanks, I'll have to look into this 'network switch' idea, whatever that is, LOL ! Remember I'm a Neanderthal ......

You probably do not need to add a switch. The router probably has a free port (a switch is most often needed if you require more ports). To get off wireless and improve your connections (and vastly improve your speed) will simply require running an ethernet cable from the router to the streamer.

 

[Puma Cat]

You probably do not need to add a switch. The router probably has a free port (a switch is most often needed if you require more ports). To get off wireless and improve your connections (and vastly improve your speed) will simply require running an ethernet cable from the router to the streamer.

I'm going to most respectfully disagree, if I may. Generic network routers (as well as generic Ethernet network switches) are really noisy. They're generally all powered by SMPS, which can put all sorts of noise components including low- and high-source leakage current, timing errors, and the like into a network-connected music server-based audio system reproduction chain, the effects of which are very clearly audible, Plus, their PHY chips (which are key for this application) and word clocks are sh*t.

This is exactly why Alex and John designed EtherREGEN specifically for networked high-end audio systems. I'd recommend reading this White Paper by professional Ethernet engineer and EtherREGEN designer, John Swenson, on why audio-grade Ethernet switches specifically designed and engineered for music server/streaming/networked-based high-end audio systems are key.

Ref: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

Moreover, EtherREGEN supports networked connection from an upstream music server to a downstream streamer or DAC via optical fiber, which trust me, is really the way to go for this application. Superior to Ethernet and also much cheaper and easier to install. I will add the that the SFP-specification FMCs used for making these fiber connections from music server to streamer or DAC are key as well, but quality SFPs are readily available and inexpensive. Cheers.

 

[Puma Cat]

Dave, for your reference, here is a graphic of my network-based music server system. The graphic shows it clearly, and I'll just add that the music server/Roon Core (named "Alita") and EtherREGEN in are on another AC mains circuit in a another room, the RSR (remote server room), than the audio system components in the main rack in the listening room. Another really nice feature of using the Lumin P1 as my streamer/DAC/preamp is I can connect it directly to the upstream music server via fiber as it has a very good SFP cage for making an LC/LC fiber connection. So, no need for Ethernet or USB cables, or a fiber-to-Ethernet convertor (e.g. the Sonore OpticalModule).

The nice thing about this networked music server system is that it's really...simple. And simple is good because there's less stuff that can go wrong. Cheers.

 

[Randy Myers]

There are pros and cons to everything. I understand your point about crap switches, however I also believe that adding any extra components to the chain also comes with other challenges. No matter how you look at it, the signal is going to come through your router so it makes sense to get the best you can. Also, prior to the signal arriving at your home, how many crap routers and switches has the signal gone through? Thousands, tens of thousands? Yes, a better switch can stop further derogation to the signal if a switch is required, but no component can bring back what has been lost, period. Adding additional components to your setup does not bring back what was lost prior in the chain.

This is one of many reasons that I play all of my digital music straight from internal M.2 and SSD drives on my server, connected directly to my DAC. I will take a DSD512 signal coming out of my server through a USB re-clocker (powered by a power conditioner for wall warts) straight to my DAC, through T+A in house DSD circuits output through high end balanced cables into my pre-amp, over any setup required "high-end" switches.

SSD/M.2 -> quality USB cable -> USB Re-clocker -> DAC -> quality balanced cables -> pre-amplifier -> quality balanced cables -> amplifiers (speakers/headphone amps) -> speakers/headphones

Also, there are pros and cons to optical. Yes the optical signal travels better through the cable than an electrical signal travelling through an ethernet cable, however it does come with another consideration. The digital signal has to be converted to an optical signal (light signal) prior to transmission. The signal then needs to be converted back from the "light" signal to the electrical digital signal to be processed.

 

[Mikado463]

You probably do not need to add a switch. The router probably has a free port (a switch is most often needed if you require more ports). To get off wireless and improve your connections (and vastly improve your speed) will simply require running an ethernet cable from the router to the streamer.

While the proximity of the two is close the route to get there is a PIA.........

 

[Mikado463]

Randy / professor Scharf, thank you both ! Next time over I'll have my son bring over a long enough ethernet cable to lie on the floor and see if the connectivity / pairing of the two is the issue and if so I'll go from there...........