Standalone DACs under $10k?

there are many ways to get great sound from a digital source. i would just recommend deliberately designing the entire digital chain so that all components work in a complimentary fashion.

to reiterate:

1) you can upsample PCM and DSD files to DSD512/8x with roon as well as HPQ
2) you can send up to DSD512 to the t+a dac8 dsd using a linux OS* as well as windows
2) you can do so with an inexpensive computer/server with an appropriate processor**
3) you can employ passive cooling***
4) you can inexpensively eliminate computer and network noise using optical isolation

i do this every day -- it is stable and rock solid w/o issues ...and, i am quite happy with the SQ

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* the t+a USB receiver firmware need to be upgraded
** roon uses at most 2 cores for DSP, thus, select a processor with a high base rate (~3 GHz) rather than a large number of cores
*** the TDP of the chip just needs to match the passive cooling capacity of the chassis
 
All of these things mentioned in the previous few posts may be true, and I am sure work excellent in certain applications, but certainly may not also be completely necessary. People setup and design their digital for their needs and there are different paths to reach their goals.

A well designed PC can accomplish most everything mentioned without all the detrimental noise that keeps being mentioned. I don't hear any noise from my system what so ever. Yes Roon use much less processing power, but it can use more cores if available. I have tried and know that it does use all eight cores, at a lower percentage usage than HQ Player. HQ Player uses much more processing power and loves the extra cores even more. I have tested back and forth (just the other day) and although they are close HQ Player does sound a bit better.

Without a firmware update T+A can only process DSD256 and DSD512 from Windows as stated in their manual. A firmware upgrade requires sending the machine back or owning the MP 8. It sounds so good in my system that I choose to not send it back. Also I trust Windows more than an open platform. Personal choice but I am not a fan of Linux OS and believe their are other negative aspect. I do configure my machine to have a minimal software footprint and is dedicated to only being a music server. I run only Roon core on the server, not the full application GUI and all.

I would never not have my files stored and played locally because I believe that there are more issues with the signal going across my network (Noisy NAS, router, switches, ethernet cables, etc., etc.) than any that could arise from the PC itself. I definitely would not want to add additional components in my system to handle all of this when it works so well now as it is (Streamers, Audiophile Switches, etc., what I've seen others refer to as digital dingleberries :D).

The bottom line is I have compared DSD512 files up-sampled to 48/DSD512 (24.6 MHz) directly against the 45 RPM vinyl version of the same album in my system and I doubt anyone could tell which one is playing (well maybe if a pop and click or two sneak through :)). They are that close and both are that good.
 
My own limited experience is consistent with those who advocate replacing any SMPS in one’s A/V system with a LPS.
 
rbbert said:
My own limited experience is consistent with those who advocate replacing any SMPS in one’s A/V system with a LPS.
Click to expand...

As far as I know this is not a bad thing to do when possible, although I doubt it will make a big difference. I did replace the power supply on my Recovery with a LPS. I believe the difference was minimal at best, but certainly did not hurt anything. I did choose the best power supply money can buy for my computer, which should be good enough :)).
 
just to point out a slight nuance to anyone following along with the t+a drama here...

a t+a dac8 dsd firmware update is not the same thing as an update to the amanero USB receiver firmware. the later is the amanero firmware running only the USB input -- it can be updated without either an mp8 or sending the DAC into a t+a service center.

i have done the USB receiver update myself and can now send native dsd streams up to dsd512 to the dac8 dsd from a linux OS (roon ROCK). you do, however, need a computer running windows in order to make this update.
 
This is a cut of what Mojo Audio does. They don't play with the signal and add euphoric sound shaping. They give you the native signal in the best fashion possible. That to me makes this dac the most natural, real and close to live I have heard in my system.

A bit closer to live music

Our ultra-purist R-2R topology has no digital filters, noise shaping, upsampling, oversampling, or error-correction. Our direct-coupled analog output stage has no output capacitors or transformers to limit bandwidth or color the sound. For optimal performance we use multiple LC choke-input power supplies and ultralow-noise ultrahigh-dynamic discrete regulators that isolate each type of chip or clock.

Our unique 2-piece ultra-rigid polymerized ferrous chassis has extremely low mechanical resonance and incredible shielding from RFI and EMI. To further minimize mechanical resonance we mount our circuit boards on Sorbothane standoffs and offer a range of high-performance anti-resonance feet. Thick ferrous and copper barriers shield sensitive signal path components from power supply and digital from analog signal path. We also offer a range of advanced shielding options to lower noise floor even more.

We employ advanced grounding topologies. Circuit boards use hybrid star-plain grounding. Shield barriers and shielded connectors are daisy chained to Earth ground with low-impedance silver plated wire. To optimize system integration the DC signal ground can be floated from the AC, Earth, and chassis grounds with the flip of a switch. We even include a grounding lug.

All of these topologies result in an incredibly low noise floor, and the lower the noise floor, the more subtlety and nuance you can hear in your music. The result is the most natural time, tune, tone, and timbre possible from a digital source. Effortless micro-dynamics, incredible micro-detail, and organic harmonic structure.

Our technology brings you closer to the original musical performance.
 
I will reiterate one more time - folks who are using a computer using smps Atx power supply and directly feeding a DAC, you are missing a whole lot. It doesn’t matter if you upsample, it doesn’t matter if your music is stored locally or somewhere else, it doesn’t matter if you have a Titanium grade Atx, it doesn’t matter how fast or slow your processor is. In my experience, they just sounds bad. If you used an LPS and found they sound as good (or as bad) as your SMPs, your LPS is a cheap quality one with high ripple and output impedance.
 
I guess my Falcon Northwest just blows then, but it sounds pretty fantastic to me ... but hey you are right my ears must just suck.
 
I built a custom audio computer for about $1100 buying parts on sale. All my cables are short and shielded. I use mostly SSD's M.2, a high end low noise, low ripple power supply and a motherboard with high grade caps. Most of the cables run behind a metal plate on the right side wall shielding them. I can't imagine the background getting any blacker or quiet. It was a huge improvement from the high end laptop I was using. I don't doubt that there would be some improvement with a LPS but I don't think that it would be dramatic. I have tried linear PS's with other gear with mixed results, some good and others no improvement.
 
Randy, you are free to choose whatever sounds best to you and I have no problem. Moreover, you haven't experimented powering the computer with different supplies but I have and yet you are advocating something you have zero experience with. Many folks who are reading this thread will be lead to believe it. Unless you have an equivalent to a medical grade ATx supply (like the ones from Sanken and alike), it's not going to cut it, no matter what you do or how hard you try.

Why do you think companies like Aurender has incorporated a battery operated power supply or Taiko or Innuos has incorporated a SOTA LPS inside ? Do you think they are just for gimmicks and trying to fool us ?
 
I do believe I have a bit of experience with computers, but whatever. It sounds amazing and very very comparable to my turntable in sound quality. It is dead quite, I hear no noise what so ever, even through my $4000 headphones straight off the DAC. Any improvements you are referencing would be long lost streaming through my network and certain through the Internet. I know power is important but it is not the be all end all of sound quality in a system, be it vinyl or digital.
 
I'm gonna be blunt. I 100% agree with Devg. You can't build a computer that performs anywhere near a server by Mojo, Antipodes, Innuos, Aurender etc. The hardware, case work, selection of components is way beyond what you get at Eggnest or wherever you shop.

And then there is software. The improvement in performance from purpose built software by these companies is stunning in and of itself. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not talking the Roon or whatever interface you see. I'm taking the Linux OS they purpose build you don't know is running in the background. Your source feeding your DAC will make or break digital playback. Its profoundly important.

Not being able to imagine is worlds apart from experiencing.
 
Randy Myers said:
I Any improvements you are referencing would be long lost streaming through my network and certain through the Internet. I know power is important but it is not the be all end all of sound quality in a system, be it vinyl or digital.
Click to expand...

No it wouldn't be lost. I have been there too under tutelage from Alrainbow. I modded 3 older model servers that were already better than what you run. When I moved to a server done right the improvement was jaw dropping. My streaming is so so so much better. As you get better PS, casework, shielding and software, the differences between streaming and off the internal storage become smaller. Streaming is shocking good on my system. I spend most of my time streaming . But admittedly play vinyl or open reel tape when I want to really dig into my favorite music.
 
Emmm, Falcon Northwest is not Eggnest or whatever. They are the oldest and to this day finest manufactures of custom computers. I purchase my machines from them because they have access to a much higher level quality and hand pick level of parts, that one individual can get. And yes, there is a difference in the parts, even with same model number. I can assure you there is no finer built computer accessible to home users anywhere in the world. They custom build what I wanted and I made sure that the software is the most streamline as possible.

Linux is open source, many/most use it because it is free. It is certainly not a bad thing, but I prefer an OS built by an established company :), than whatever random people adding mods to the open source. Yes then claim they can customize it, and some definitely do; not all.

Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, probably the best of the best dedicated pre-built music servers use Windows also. Therefore I am comfortable continuing to use my Windows machine. I would not try and say that my computer is as good as the Taiko, but I am willing to say it is as good as you can get with out spending $20k + on something like the Taiko.
 
I have seen your falcon. Just adressing the PS. Is it anything like this:

Powered by our Illuminati ultralow-noise ultrahigh-dynamic LC choke-input linear power supply with five independent Belleson SPX ultralow-noise ultrahigh-dynamic regulators. Every board, card, drive, and clock can be independently powered
 
And your bagging on linux but saying you like a closed source software with a back door and many process you cant shut down running in the background.
 
And just because Taiko is a boatload of money and uber wealthy people own them does not mean they are the best. I bet they are darn good. But others might be better. The best Aurender, Innuos and Antipodes all push the $14k to $20k if you want to throw money around. But a $7000 unit from any of them is built with better parts then a Falcon.
 
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