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Speaker setup
- Thread starter Mike
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Jim Smith
Member
IMO, much better than the all-too-usual formulaic set-up guides. :tup:
Using this video as a guide with the recommended "1/5th dimensions", I moved my loudspeakers 5 more inches from the front wall recently to make them 35" from front baffle to the wall behind them. Made a substantial difference. The system always sounded good but just moving the speakers the additional 5" further away from the wall made the image snap into focus with a better center image. Going to play with my seating position next and make sure it meets the 1/5 dimension from the rear wall media shelving.
Thanks for linking this video Mike.
Thanks for linking this video Mike.
Jim Smith
Member
Cool!!!
The nice thing is that there is still a significant level of improvement beyond this better-than-average basic set-up guide.
BTW - Seating position always comes first when-or-if you want to move beyond the level of musical involvement available from this basic guide.
Thanks Jim. Yep, going to play with the seating position next. I started with the speaker positions as they are easiest to move. Now that I've got that improvement happening, I'll move the seating position which consists of an 8x10 rug, the 500lb record storage/coffee table/trunk that sits in front of my couch and the couch itself. Once there, evaluate and see if I need to do more....like get your book and follow more guidance.
You mean at 1/5th of the room length?
I have mine (driver plane) 7 feet from the front wall, in a 24 feet long room.
Dguitarnut
New member
It’s different from the Cardas room guide of .276 and .447 ratio.
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_rectangular_room.php
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_rectangular_room.php
yes, I meant 1/5th of the room length from the front wall and 1/5th of the width from the side wall as stated in the video. Just trying to see how close is this approximation in different setups.
Jack
Active member
Mine are 1/5th using the front baffle and center of the drivers as starting point. Have been that way since the 3A Signature days. That method doesn't quite work though with the OB Spatials.
Jack
Active member
Dev
I have, especially with the three Vandersteen models as they were finicky especially the Treo. Also with the Golden Ear, the Odyssey Lorelei, the big Offrande monitor, the Meadowlark Shearwater and the Nola's. In the the end they all ended up pretty close to the 1/5th position after moving them around. The smaller monitors like the Nola Boxer, Soliloquy, Reynaud Trente and the Green Mountains were all different. In the Main system room due to it's dimensions that just seems to work out the best in the end. The Spatial's were only in that room a couple of days to test them out before putting them in a spare BR for a week of break-in so I just put them in front and to the inside of the KO's so don't know how they would have ended up as they never went back in that room again.
I have, especially with the three Vandersteen models as they were finicky especially the Treo. Also with the Golden Ear, the Odyssey Lorelei, the big Offrande monitor, the Meadowlark Shearwater and the Nola's. In the the end they all ended up pretty close to the 1/5th position after moving them around. The smaller monitors like the Nola Boxer, Soliloquy, Reynaud Trente and the Green Mountains were all different. In the Main system room due to it's dimensions that just seems to work out the best in the end. The Spatial's were only in that room a couple of days to test them out before putting them in a spare BR for a week of break-in so I just put them in front and to the inside of the KO's so don't know how they would have ended up as they never went back in that room again.
Jack
Active member
For now it's a little short of 1/5th but when the new rack gets here I may try moving it around a bit and see what the effect is.
If I move the speakers that far back,
a) the speakers do not fully energize my room, robbing the music of 'live feel' -- at the current position they do that splendidly
b) the soundstage gets rather shallow
Every situation, room and acoustic is different. There cannot be any dogmatic hard rules, just general guidelines that can serve as a starting point from which all options are probed.
Dev,
My room dimensions are 17' W x 14'-8" D x 7' T. The gear and speakers are set up along the long wall but are not centered on that wall.
Yes, my loudspeakers were 5" closer to the front wall (30" overall from front baffle to wall) before I moved them the additional 5" into the room (now 35" overall from front baffle to wall) to meet the 1/5th depth dimension. Just moving that 5" really helped solidify the center image.
I'm not quite sure how to calculate the 1/5th dimensions/ratio for width in my room as the system and speakers sit off center on the long wall. The left speaker sits 33" from left wall to center of drivers and the speakers themselves are 6'-10" between left and right speaker driver centers. This puts the right hand speaker driver centers 7'-5" from the right wall. Currently, it sounds great so not certain if I'll move them around (left and right) right now. Instead, I'll play with my listening position as it will need to move back about 12" to meet the 1/5th rule from the rear wall and is easy enough to test/check.
Hi Mike,
glad that you are enjoying the new position. I think most of us understand the importance of speaker position relative to a room. I was trying to statistically see how close are folks for a particular rule - if every speaker is positioned differently and far away from a particular rule, what's the point of having a rule then ? Some will say its just a starting point but there are N number of rule and hence possibly N number of starting points. For example, mine are 6'.3" from the front wall in a room length of 19' - a far away numbers from the 1/5th rule, whereas yours and Jack's are going well with this particular rule.
Some says to find the listening position first but my speaker manufacturer suggest to find the speaker position first and then find the listening position. All setups I have heard with my speaker and done by the manufacturer sounds terrific to my ears.
I guess it all boils down to a combination of room, speaker and electronics used and there is no one particular rule to start with and experiment is the key. At one point I probably have experimented with all the "rules" that I could find on the internet (1/5th, 1/3rd, Cardas, WASP, etc) and other expert suggestions/books - I find the Nordost setup guideline/disc to be very effective.
Sometime changing gears can also lead to re-position of the placement. I am not done yet and still experiment when time allows....
Jim Smith
Member
Different strokes...
In over 800 successful room/system tuning sessions, including at shows (fortunately winning best-sound-of-show awards at 5 out of the 7 shows we did, and with speakers that had been ignored or disliked), at dealers and manufacturers, and of course with consumer clients, I have always found it necessary to first establish the Anchor Position for tuning the speakers to the room. That has always meant finding the best listening position first, because that is where the bass is smoothest (working with the room rather than against it). It makes a powerful difference in musical dynamics (no boom at some frequencies, no missing notes at others), with dynamics being one of the major aspects of system playback that can pluck the heartstrings (musical engagement).
I have NEVER found any system that was set-up with ANY guide or technique - no matter how famous - that couldn't be greatly improved upon in a matter of a few hours, sometimes less. FWIW - Over the years, I've gone behind ALL of the famous guides and set-up techniques espoused by the "experts" as well as speaker manufacturers - at the request of frustrated clients - with the client always amazed at how much more alive and musically engaging their system became, without buying another component. In fact, AFAIK, it's never failed.
Please understand - after looking at the above, even I think it sounds like an ad. However, it's not supposed to be about me - and it's not rocket science - anyone can do it with a bit of insight.
One more question/comment - how can all of the guides/techniques be so different and yet all are supposed to be best? Just asking...
IMO/IME of course.