Then we REALLY disagree
I do not believe that without a MQA dac you can get anything above 24/48. Anything above that has to be hw encoded in the dac. I also think your dac is upsampling, but I would not bet a penny on that
So, does the introduction of MQA change/alter your plans going forward?
- Thread starter joeinid
- Start date
Then we REALLY disagree
I do not believe that without a MQA dac you can get anything above 24/48. Anything above that has to be hw encoded in the dac. I also think your dac is upsampling, but I would not bet a penny on thatYes, agreed on this.
audiophil
New member
You'll have to define original rate - what I think you mean is container bitrate, which in the case of the album we've been discussing is 44.1.
I can assure you my DAC is not upscaling, it is simply displaying the bitrate of the file being passed to it after the MQA info has been decoded by Tidal.
with an MQA-compatible DAC MQA files can be decoded at their maximum rate, which depending on the file could be as high as 384/32! So, without an MQA-compatible DAC the best you can get is 96/24 and that is what people are getting with a non-MQA dac. So without a MQA DAC your not hearing all the analog like (its what I think I hear) goodness that is there on some albums.
"" The selection box where you can turn on "Use Exclusive Mode." The final box to check or not check is the "Passthrough MQA." When it is clicked and turns blue you are sending an unconverted MQA stream to your MQA-compatible DAC. When it is unchecked then the Tidal App will do the MQA conversion and send either an 88.1/24 or 96/24 stream to your non-MQA DAC. ""
Why would resampling to 32/384 make any difference? I doubt there is any source 32/384 material. Even 24/48 source material is extremely rare.
This is what the MQA review says "You cannot play back an MQA encoded 24/96 file as a 24/96 file on a non-MQA DAC.
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-reviewed#lVewVpCQhb5BKC0Y.99
So how are you playing it if it says that you can't?
audiophil
New member
Then we REALLY disagree
You are not correct, and I genuinely wonder what would lead you to this conclusion, other than the outdated information from AudioStream you posted earlier. My DAC doesn't upsample at all, whether playing Tidal, local files, or anything else. At this point you're simply spreading misinformation.
audiophil
New member
Again even though this article is less than a year old, it's outdated since the release of SOFTWARE DECODING.
You might as well have said, "How can you have traveled around the world? The world is flat!"
Can you please show me some written information from either Tidal or ??? where it says that you can play higher than 24/48 mqa on a non mqa dac. I am only going by the written information that is available and by what my dac is reading and by the definite different in sound.
I would love to see the information that backs up your claim as that would be a good thing, I just have not either seen or experienced what you are saying, please show me something that proves me wrong....I will embrace it wholeheartedly
audiophil
New member
Can you please show me some written information from either Tidal or ??? where it says that you can play higher than 24/48 mqa on a non mqa dac. I am only going by the written information that is available and by what my dac is reading and by the definite different in sound.
I would love to see the information that backs up your claim as that would be a good thing, I just have not either seen or experienced what you are saying, please show me something that proves me wrong....I will embrace it wholeheartedly
It's right in the Tidal Masters FAQ - the last question:
What is the difference between HiFi quality and Master quality sound?
HiFi audio is a superior sound, but is still limited in its resolution — 44.1 kHz/16 bit.
Yet TIDAL has partnered with MQA to deliver something infinitely better: an authenticated and unbroken version (typically 96 kHz/24 bit) with the highest possible resolution — as flawless as it sounded in the mastering suite. And exactly as the artist intended it to sound.
Phil, sorry but that does NOT say that you can play an MQA file higher than 24/48 in a non mqa dac.
Actually looking at posts on many different forums, (AudioNirvana, Computer Audiophile, WBF etc) I can't find one person except yourself that is using a non mqa dac and is reading anything more than 24/48. I can find may 20 or 30 people saying they are doing the sw decode and are reading 24/48.
Very possible that everyone else is wrong and your are right, we will get to the answer in the coming hours or days. Shall be interesting. I'm totally fine with being wrong on this, but I would like to see just one other example either in specific writing or someone else dac that is showing more than 24/48. Then I will believe.
What is really interesting is that NOWHERE except the mentioned MQA review does either the Tidal site, the MQA site or any other review on the net, that I could find, gives any specifics on what the SW MQA decoding is capable of 23/48 etc or the max that you can get with a MQA dac.
I have not heard anywhere else that the MQA review was outdated or is wrong either. It would be nice to find some clarification on it all though.....I'm sure there will be in the near future.
audiophil
New member
True, but it doesn't make any mention of needing an MQA enabled DAC. In fact, there is no mention of MQA enabled hardware anywhere on the Tidal website. So I find it somewhat ridiculous that Tidal would make such a big deal out of this release (and the typical bitrate) without publishing the limitations or other caveat SOMEWHERE.
What Tidal DOES make very clear is that you can only access the Master files through the desktop application.
What I can also tell you from my own experience is that software decoding allows for 88.2 and 96k files to be sent to my DAC. By selecting "Passthrough MQA" the files are not decoded, and are limited to the original container size - 44.1 or 48k. Take the time to get things working on your end and you'll see exactly what I mean. You can prove it to yourself.
I've not reviewed those forums, so I have no idea what kind of playback chain those people are using. Perhaps they're all using a Lumin or Aurender?
Are you guys arguing about what goes through the Aurender, or about the Tidal desktop app in general? Because Steve Stone's post at Audio Circle (linked a long time ago now, about 5 days LOL) specifically discussed the app allowing up to 24/96 through any DAC; higher res only with a MQA-DAC. BTW I think I have my setup working now, but have only had a chance to compare one album to its hi-res download equivalent. More later
No, on Computer Audiophile, no one is using Aurender or Lumin, they are using all types of setups, with all types of screen shots etc and no one shows higher than 24/48 with a non mqa dac.
Totally open to being wrong and sorry but my Tidal app will not communicate with my dac???
audiophil
New member
Thank goodness, I was beginning to think I was alone in this world.
Also, I did a very quick cursory search and found plenty of people playing Tidal Masters with 88.2 and 96k resolution WITHOUT MQA enabled DAS. Here's one example. Read through the thread here.
"...For my PC Tidal app when connected to my Chord Mojo via USB, I can see that Beyonce/2L/Bruno Mars were playing back at 88kHz whereas The Doors/Buena Vista Social Club were playing at 96kHz. The switching of sample rates is automatic. Playing regular Tidal HiFi files are still 44.1kHz. I think we will all have some learning curves getting Tidal Masters working for our own systems."
Yep, there are some good examples. It seems like you have to be connected directly from the Tidal desktop app to your dac, which is what you have been saying, and which I have not been able to do. I will work on that and get the Tidal app talking to my dac, then I guess it would show the higher rates.
I understand that 24/48 is not the full monte of the mqa decoding, but I still maintain that 24/48 is has been mqa decoded.
Let me work on the pc to dac connection.
I am also getting 24/88 or 24/96 through my non-mqa dac.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thx Chris, for some reason I can't get the tidal app to recognize the dac. The computer does, but the Tidal app will play through the computer and dac, but I can't the Tidal settings to show the exclusive mode stuff.....will keep trying....thx
Ok! From the slow learner here and the spreader of bad information - I got the desktop Tidal app to pay through the msb non mqa dac. It shows 32/88K on the dac on the Iron and Wine.
Through the Aurender all you see is 24/48.
After just a few quick listens to a few tracks off of 3 albums, Iron and Wine, Joni Mitchel and James Taylor the 32/88 coming directly from the Tidal desktop app connected via usb to the msb non-mqa dac vs. the 24/48 same Masters tracks that were favorited over to the Aurender from the desktop, there again is a NOTICEABLE difference.
The 24/48 still seems to have the same sonic signature and is definitely vinyl type sounding to me, but the 32/88 from the desktop app takes it to another level. Maybe 25% better?...which is a lot. It's more fuller sounding and has less of an edge to the sound.
Andy, from the forum is going to bring over his Brooklyn DAC and we are going to see what an MQA dac sounds like now vs. the 32/88 from the computer, which is now the premium MQA sound that I am getting.
Thx Phil and Chris, appreciate it.
Through the Aurender all you see is 24/48.
After just a few quick listens to a few tracks off of 3 albums, Iron and Wine, Joni Mitchel and James Taylor the 32/88 coming directly from the Tidal desktop app connected via usb to the msb non-mqa dac vs. the 24/48 same Masters tracks that were favorited over to the Aurender from the desktop, there again is a NOTICEABLE difference.
The 24/48 still seems to have the same sonic signature and is definitely vinyl type sounding to me, but the 32/88 from the desktop app takes it to another level. Maybe 25% better?...which is a lot. It's more fuller sounding and has less of an edge to the sound.
Andy, from the forum is going to bring over his Brooklyn DAC and we are going to see what an MQA dac sounds like now vs. the 32/88 from the computer, which is now the premium MQA sound that I am getting.
Thx Phil and Chris, appreciate it.
audio.bill
Active member
Boy, I'm exhausted just following all of this, but am glad to see that Bob was finally able to get the Tidal desktop app to see his MSB DAC! Good team work!!! :congrats:
Phil, Although I am playing from the Tidal Desktop/Masters and connected to the msb dac and the dac read 32/88 in the Tidal desktop app I still can't get it to show exclusive or passthrough mode. But it's playing 32/88K on the dac????? Does this mean because the Tidal app is not recognizing (even though it's playing from the app to the dac) that it's still not MQA?