Puma Cat
Well-known member
Will do.
And...look what just arrived: the USB-A and RJ45 VTX-Ag tails.
Et voila...
the USB tail on an Alpha CGC
the RJ45 tail on an Alpha CGC
Shunyata Launches - ALTAIRA GROUNDING SYSTEM!!
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Will do.
And...look what just arrived: the USB-A and RJ45 VTX-Ag tails.
Et voila...
the USB tail on an Alpha CGC
the RJ45 tail on an Alpha CGC
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Okay....so played a reference track on with the system fully warmed up. Then, connected a single Alpha CGC from an unused USB-A port on the Mac Mini Roon core to an Altaira terminal" on Gemini.
F*CK ME!!!
The presentation just became notably more expansive, dimensionally-layered, spacious and 3-dimensional, with a background with a "deeper decay" into blackness. Whoa....NOT subtle.
F*CK ME!!!
The presentation just became notably more expansive, dimensionally-layered, spacious and 3-dimensional, with a background with a "deeper decay" into blackness. Whoa....NOT subtle.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
More notes: NOT a subtle improvement: the entire presentation has more body, "weight", depth, and expansiveness. :celebrate008_2:
My guess is the ground planes of "consumer-grade" computers used as "high-end music servers" are pretty dirty.
My guess is the ground planes of "consumer-grade" computers used as "high-end music servers" are pretty dirty.
MusicLover
New member
Hi Stephen,
great reports from your end! This mirrors my experience from adding signal grounding to my Taiko Extreme. I had only done the standard grounding via the GND post. Then for fun I added another grounding cable to one of the free Ethernet ports not expecting much. I was pinching myself as I didn’t expect anything. As you described…more body, weight, expansiveness. Great! Then I remembered that Emile from Taiko recommended the USB port is the most effective choice. So switched to USB…and yeah … even better! Also Emile said you could try doing more than one signal ground and give it a try. So, I added the Ethernet back. Hell, that was like adding up the two individual effects!! Wohoooo!
As Caelin said in the interview with Mike, these digital devices by their very nature are quite dirty.
So for everyone with an Altaria and a capable digital source, please give it a try and connect a signal grounding cable… you might very much like the effect!
great reports from your end! This mirrors my experience from adding signal grounding to my Taiko Extreme. I had only done the standard grounding via the GND post. Then for fun I added another grounding cable to one of the free Ethernet ports not expecting much. I was pinching myself as I didn’t expect anything. As you described…more body, weight, expansiveness. Great! Then I remembered that Emile from Taiko recommended the USB port is the most effective choice. So switched to USB…and yeah … even better! Also Emile said you could try doing more than one signal ground and give it a try. So, I added the Ethernet back. Hell, that was like adding up the two individual effects!! Wohoooo!
As Caelin said in the interview with Mike, these digital devices by their very nature are quite dirty.
So for everyone with an Altaria and a capable digital source, please give it a try and connect a signal grounding cable… you might very much like the effect!
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Hi Stephen,
great reports from your end! This mirrors my experience from adding signal grounding to my Taiko Extreme. I had only done the standard grounding via the GND post. Then for fun I added another grounding cable to one of the free Ethernet ports not expecting much. I was pinching myself as I didn’t expect anything. As you described…more body, weight, expansiveness. Great! Then I remembered that Emile from Taiko recommended the USB port is the most effective choice. So switched to USB…and yeah … even better! Also Emile said you could try doing more than one signal ground and give it a try. So, I added the Ethernet back. Hell, that was like adding up the two individual effects!! Wohoooo!
As Caelin said in the interview with Mike, these digital devices by their very nature are quite dirty.
So for everyone with an Altaria and a capable digital source, please give it a try and connect a signal grounding cable… you might very much like the effect!
Yes, that mirrors my experience as well. That's great that Taiko has a ground terminal on it. I wish all manufacturers installed these on their components. I just remembered that the forthcoming Lumin L2 has a ground terminal, also. So, good on ya Taiko and Lumin! :tup:
After installing the USB cable on the Mini Roon core, I just performed your experiment, but in reverse order: I installed the RJ45 tail on a Venom CGC cable and connected it to the Pace Router and obtained further improvements. Not quite of the magnitude of the USB tail in the Mini, but probably 75% of the improvement, but that's likely due to the this ground cable being a Venom instead an Alpha. The jump from the Venom to the Alpha ground cables is pretty notable, so for component connections, I've decided to standardize on Alpha ground cables.
Rememer, the noise does not ride down low, at what some folks refer to as the "noise floor", it rides ON TOP of the signal, as shown.
Just installing those tails yesterday, the presentation and overall audio quality took quite a notable jump forward. So, when it comes to noise, every bit helps.
So, that's consistent and concordant with your findings as well. :tup:
In conclusion, if folks have "remote server rooms", "network closets" etc., adding ground cables with the appropriate tails to the "networked devices", e.g. Roon cores, Taikos, Grimm, Pink Faun "music servers", etc., and Ethernet switches, routers, and the like, connecting them to a Gemini or Altaira for grounding pays big dividends.
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,074
Yes, that mirrors my experience as well. That's great that Taiko has a ground terminal on it. I wish all manufacturers installed these on their components. I just remembered that the forthcoming Lumin L2 has a ground terminal, also. So, good on ya Taiko and Lumin! :tup:
After installing the USB cable on the Mini Roon core, I just performed your experiment, but in reverse order: I installed the RJ45 tail on a Venom CGC cable and connected it to the Pace Router and obtained further improvements. Not quite of the magnitude of the USB tail in the Mini, but probably 75% of the improvement, but that's likely due to the this ground cable being a Venom instead an Alpha. The jump from the Venom to the Alpha ground cables is pretty notable, so for component connections, I've decided to standardize on Alpha ground cables.
Rememer, the noise does not ride down low, at what some folks refer to as the "noise floor", it rides ON TOP of the signal, as shown.
Just installing those tails yesterday, the presentation and overall audio quality took quite a notable jump forward. So, when it comes to noise, every bit helps.
So, that's consistent and concordant with your findings as well. :tup:
In conclusion, if folks have "remote server rooms", "network closets" etc., adding ground cables with the appropriate tails to the "networked devices", e.g. Roon cores, Taikos, Grimm, Pink Faun "music servers", etc., and Ethernet switches, routers, and the like, connecting them to a Gemini or Altaira for grounding pays big dividends.
Those are the worst looking "square waves" I have ever seen.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
That's cool, but it would not surprise me. Shunyata's been building out the Venom-X cable line for a while now. I've got a pair of the Venom-X RCA and XLR ICs, and a pair of the Venom-X speaker cables I use for my GR-Research X-LS Encores, and a V-x clock cable I use to connect the AfterDark Master Clock to EtherREGEN. In my direct experience, this product line punches quite a ways above it's price point, and are fully competitive with cables selling at mutiples of their price point. I also own a coupla pair of the Alpha V2 RCA ICs that I used with my CJ amp and First Sound preamp, but I actually use Venom-X XLR ICs for my Constellation Inspiration integrated as the Inspiration prefers XLR to RCA.
At an IC "shootout" we had for the SF Audiophile Foundation in Healdsburg, CA in late 2022, the Venom-X was 1 of the top 3 cables preferred by the audience of 30 or so attendees, and were fully competive with Cardas Clear Beyond ICs selling for 4.5X their price.
The Venom-X clock cable was a great choice at it's price point for my AfterDark Queen master clock, and it provided a significant improvement to the performance of the clock compared to the stock, generic clock cable.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
I would imagine so, but I would check with your local dealer as I don't know, specifically.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
It is, from TAS for 2022; also won Editor's Choice Award for 2023.
Dizzie
Well-known member
On a two-chassis component which chassis is the preferred chassis to ground? I do not have an Altaira but my Typhon T2 has two CGS posts.
crwilli
Active member
The experts may weigh in but in my opinion, I would ground both. The Altaira has multiple ground connections and both ‘boxes’ could have low levels of electrical noise in them.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Yup. Fact is, everything that is powered...has noise. There is virtually no getting around this fact; at the end of the day, this is physics, after all. Moreover, one can never completely eliminate noise...at the very lowest "level" there will still be types of noise e.g., shot noise, etc. But, whatever one can do to reduce the level and impact of noise really helps, particularly for our high-end audio systems.
From my experience, folks should connect an Altaira to any ground terminal or unused "interface connection" they can. I find that the ground-plane noise decreases even further when you ground unused "ports", e.g. unused signal interface jacks (RCA & XLR), and USB, S/PDIF, AES/EBU ports, etc.
So, for example, I am running GCGs from the unused RCA and XLR jacks on the Constellation integrated, and unused USB, S/PDIF, and RCA inputs on the Lumin P1 (as well as the dedicated chassis ground terminal on the P1; thank you, Lumin.)
Also, if you can go "dual-mono" with two SG Altairas for each channel, L/R, for fully dual-mono amplification components e.g., amps & integrateds, etc., from Esoteric, Dart, Soulution, Constellation, CH, etc., etc.)...holy sh*t!
SCAudiophile
Active member
Absolutely agree, the answer is "both".
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
SCAudiophile
Active member
I've seen this mentioned by you and others, including mention of the RH install as well.
This is one area where quantifiable results and tests are not given. Only a "more is better" rationale is used.
As you know, I am a multi-zone Altaira SG-NR user and fan, also have plenty of other Shunyata gear and cables in my system for 20+ years, and have tested many configs for CG as well as SG. For SG, those configs included dual mono design components in the mix.
This is one area where I do not see the real reason for the premise or rigorous responses being given anywhere.
Let's remember, too, that there are dual mono configs for amps, DACs, etc, where L and R are 2 separate chassis, and further, there are dual-mono design components in a single chassis using separate internal sub-chassis and separated circuit topologies.
Given this (taken straight off the Altaira product page):
"Six Isolation Zones
ALTAIRA has six terminals that are each individually isolated from one another. Each terminal is designed to connect to a single component for best performance. Each zone and each component is therefore isolated from one another and from earth-ground common-mode noise."
For Signal Grounding, why is it then necessary to have 2 Altaira (for L and R)?
Given the above, a dual-mono amp config, for example (or a dual-mono DAC like the 2-chassis Esoteric Grandioso D1 or D1X or D1Xse) could just as easily be accommodated by using separate and isolated posts on a single Altaira SG-NR. You may need multiple Altaira depending upon number of SG points needed via listening test (not just attaching cables to any and all unused ports), or to go multi-zone, however, I see no rigorous explanation backed up by test data as to why that number must then be "times 2" for dual-mono.
Open to any new information and data on this....I don't understand the premise ("yet")
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
Puma Cat
Well-known member
I've seen this mentioned by you and others, including mention of the RH install as well.
This is one area where quantifiable results and tests are not given. Only a "more is better" rationale is used.
As you know, I am a multi-zone Altaira SG-NR user and fan, also have plenty of other Shunyata gear and cables in my system for 20+ years, and have tested many configs for CG as well as SG. For SG, those configs included dual mono design components in the mix.
This is one area where I do not see the real reason for the premise or rigorous responses being given anywhere.
Let's remember, too, that there are dual mono configs for amps, DACs, etc, where L and R are 2 separate chassis, and further, there are dual-mono design components in a single chassis using separate internal sub-chassis and separated circuit topologies.
Given this (taken straight off the Altaira product page):
"Six Isolation Zones
ALTAIRA has six terminals that are each individually isolated from one another. Each terminal is designed to connect to a single component for best performance. Each zone and each component is therefore isolated from one another and from earth-ground common-mode noise."
For Signal Grounding, why is it then necessary to have 2 Altaira (for L and R)?
<snip>
Open to any new information and data on this....I don't understand the premise ("yet")
All I can say, Mark, is that the improvements provided by going "dual-mono" with an SG Altaira for each channel, L/R, for my dual-mono Constellation integrated, were signficant. It wasn't a "subtle" improvement.
.
So, I'm going with the "empirical data". If possible, give it a try and see what you think.
Cheers and best regards.
SCAudiophile
Active member
I am very glad it is working for you and you've heard undeniable benefit! As much as I'm all-in on this product platform and all the benefits it provides, with all its taken to be able
to have two full and separate Altaira SG-NR "zones" and a literal sea of high-end SGS and CGS wiring running around, I am admittedly still looking for a clear answer to the following:
"Six Isolation Zones
ALTAIRA has six terminals that are each individually isolated from one another. Each terminal is designed to connect to a single component for best performance. Each zone and each component is therefore isolated from one another and from earth-ground common-mode noise."
For Signal Grounding, why is it then necessary to have 2 Altaira (for L and R)? What cannot be provided (at a signal noise filtering and circuit level)?
That stated, I'm happy to provide a shipping address to anyone willing to send me two additional Altaira SG-NR hubs and the two extra Sigma or Omega cables necessary to
connect them via post #7 into the configuration so that I can do an extensive demo and A:B. If it provides audible benefit here, happy to add detailed notes on the experience
here... and concise explanation to justify the additional expense