S5s in for audition
- Thread starter mdkim
- Start date
+1
When I heard the S5 for the first time at the dealer's (driven by FMA amp), I already found that it bettered my previous speaker (Sasha I) in many sonic attributes, but I was still not completely sure. I ordered a pair so that I could compare them at length in my own environment. Once in my room, the decision was easy.
I heard the S5 in a friend's system yesterday. Here is a post which I just added to his WBF thread:
Magico S5's in the house... - Page 10
I spent the day yesterday listening to Madfloyd's system. As I have an analog only based system, we spend most of the day listening to familiar LPs. First up was Beethoven's Appassionata played by kayo Kamiya, direct to disk at 45rpm. I know this record well as I have been using it lately while comparing cartridges. The upper keys sounded glorious with beautiful tone, dynamics and detail. Extremely natural, but the midrange and lower frequencies were a bit thin, lacking body, weight and foundation. It seemed odd that my Magico Mini IIs could play this recording with more realism than the much larger, full range S5. This initial impression reflected some of the criticism people have expressed about the thin bass on Magico speakers.
Ian and I set about tying to improve the sound. We moved the Alexias out of the room and started to play with speaker positioning. We added the spikes to the S5s once the speakers were close to their final location. We moved the speakers closer to the listener, moved them in toward each other and set them up fairly precisely with his laser measuring device. Toe-in and tilt were adjusted. With each change, the midrange slowly filled in, the bass began to appear and the sound improved. Tonal balance became much smother and the low frequencies gained a clarity, weight, articulation and texture. I had not heard this level of sound in his system before. It was beginning to be very impressive.
We then switched his MIT speaker cables to the Transparents that I had brought with me and we also inserted some Transparent ICs between his phono and pre. This changed the tonal balance toward the midrange, so we spread the speakers apart and regained the tonal balance and increased the soundstage width while doing so. It was kind of interesting how we got similar results from switching speaker cable brands and moving the speakers narrower or wider. The MITs sounded very extended with great high and low frequencies, but they were a bit thin in the midrange. The Transparents emphasized the midrange over the frequency extremes. We compensated for this simply by moving the speakers closer to each other or further apart. In the end, we both agreed that the bass was slightly better with the MIT, but I preferred the Transparents overall because I found the highs less fatiguing. Ian seemed to like both brands and will work on further toe-in and minor adjustments to address the MIT highs. Both cables sounded very good.
We also made some minor adjustments to VTA, azimuth and anti skating. Now Beethoven's Appassionata had the tonal balance and dynamics that I hear on my Mini IIs in my much smaller, sealed room but it had more resolution, extension and scale. The energy exploding from that Bosendorfer was something to behold. It sounded very natural and realistic, as did most of the other LPs we listened to after all of our adjustments. Near the end of the visit, Ian wanted to quickly run through a selection of digital files so that he could better understand what the Magicos sounded like with contemporary rock and pop recordings and he also wanted to switch the cables back to MIT.
Sure enough, they could bogey. There were some extreme amounts of bass articulation, extension and impact on heavy rock music. The place was shaking. (As it did earlier with the Sheffield Drum LP). Dynamics were incredible, but so where the delicate, nuanced string lines on solo violin. I suppose it sounds trite, but I found these speakers very emotionally involving. I was not really expecting that. I should add that the S5s are extremely transparent. You don't get the sense that they are adding a coloration of their own. I'm sure they must, but it is very difficult to identify exactly what it is. I thought my Mini IIs lack cabinet colorations. The S5 takes that to a new level. And the drivers just don't attract attention to themselves. It is a very coherent speaker design. The speakers seem a bit more forgiving in terms of room placement because of the sealed cabinets, but they can be so precise and revealing, to reach the speakers potential, it is worth making the effort to really play with set up and speaker/listener positions. We found those efforts very rewarding.
I had heard the S5 previously on two occasions at dealerships. I was underwhelmed. I don't know if it was the set ups, the associated equipment or that they were not yet fully broken in. It makes me wonder if some of the criticism of Magico's general sound is due to less than ideal auditioning conditions.
This experience at Ian's house gave me a new appreciation of this speaker. His room is fine but not ideal for acoustics. It is extremely comfortable and a real pleasure to be in. Ian loves music, so the openness of the room allows him to listen less seriously while cooking in his kitchen or walking around the downstairs. I had thought that this open room would not allow the pressurization necessary to get that visceral impact from the lower frequencies that some other speakers can provide. I was wrong. The S5 delivers plenty of impact and startling dynamics and room filling sound, even in Ian's large, open floor plan.
His associated equipment is of a very high caliber. The Pass electronics and Magico are a superb combination. In this setting, the Magico S5s sounded fantastic. I think they will benefit from some more break in. I think they have about 250 hours on them now. And they will sound even better with some more judicious fine tuning to achieve their last bit of potential, but I was very impressed with the presentation yesterday. It is the best that his system has sounded to me, and I have been enjoying his hospitality for several years now.
Many of you know that I am a big Magico/Pass fan. But given my previous experiences with the S5, I was not expecting such a good demonstration. I had always preferred the sound of the Magico Q series, but after yesterday's listening session, I have a new found respect and real appreciation for these speakers. Like Myles discovered during his excellent review period, the S5 is a real achievement.
Many thanks again Ian for a wonderful afternoon listening session. The system is really sounding excellent.
Magico S5's in the house... - Page 10
I spent the day yesterday listening to Madfloyd's system. As I have an analog only based system, we spend most of the day listening to familiar LPs. First up was Beethoven's Appassionata played by kayo Kamiya, direct to disk at 45rpm. I know this record well as I have been using it lately while comparing cartridges. The upper keys sounded glorious with beautiful tone, dynamics and detail. Extremely natural, but the midrange and lower frequencies were a bit thin, lacking body, weight and foundation. It seemed odd that my Magico Mini IIs could play this recording with more realism than the much larger, full range S5. This initial impression reflected some of the criticism people have expressed about the thin bass on Magico speakers.
Ian and I set about tying to improve the sound. We moved the Alexias out of the room and started to play with speaker positioning. We added the spikes to the S5s once the speakers were close to their final location. We moved the speakers closer to the listener, moved them in toward each other and set them up fairly precisely with his laser measuring device. Toe-in and tilt were adjusted. With each change, the midrange slowly filled in, the bass began to appear and the sound improved. Tonal balance became much smother and the low frequencies gained a clarity, weight, articulation and texture. I had not heard this level of sound in his system before. It was beginning to be very impressive.
We then switched his MIT speaker cables to the Transparents that I had brought with me and we also inserted some Transparent ICs between his phono and pre. This changed the tonal balance toward the midrange, so we spread the speakers apart and regained the tonal balance and increased the soundstage width while doing so. It was kind of interesting how we got similar results from switching speaker cable brands and moving the speakers narrower or wider. The MITs sounded very extended with great high and low frequencies, but they were a bit thin in the midrange. The Transparents emphasized the midrange over the frequency extremes. We compensated for this simply by moving the speakers closer to each other or further apart. In the end, we both agreed that the bass was slightly better with the MIT, but I preferred the Transparents overall because I found the highs less fatiguing. Ian seemed to like both brands and will work on further toe-in and minor adjustments to address the MIT highs. Both cables sounded very good.
We also made some minor adjustments to VTA, azimuth and anti skating. Now Beethoven's Appassionata had the tonal balance and dynamics that I hear on my Mini IIs in my much smaller, sealed room but it had more resolution, extension and scale. The energy exploding from that Bosendorfer was something to behold. It sounded very natural and realistic, as did most of the other LPs we listened to after all of our adjustments. Near the end of the visit, Ian wanted to quickly run through a selection of digital files so that he could better understand what the Magicos sounded like with contemporary rock and pop recordings and he also wanted to switch the cables back to MIT.
Sure enough, they could bogey. There were some extreme amounts of bass articulation, extension and impact on heavy rock music. The place was shaking. (As it did earlier with the Sheffield Drum LP). Dynamics were incredible, but so where the delicate, nuanced string lines on solo violin. I suppose it sounds trite, but I found these speakers very emotionally involving. I was not really expecting that. I should add that the S5s are extremely transparent. You don't get the sense that they are adding a coloration of their own. I'm sure they must, but it is very difficult to identify exactly what it is. I thought my Mini IIs lack cabinet colorations. The S5 takes that to a new level. And the drivers just don't attract attention to themselves. It is a very coherent speaker design. The speakers seem a bit more forgiving in terms of room placement because of the sealed cabinets, but they can be so precise and revealing, to reach the speakers potential, it is worth making the effort to really play with set up and speaker/listener positions. We found those efforts very rewarding.
I had heard the S5 previously on two occasions at dealerships. I was underwhelmed. I don't know if it was the set ups, the associated equipment or that they were not yet fully broken in. It makes me wonder if some of the criticism of Magico's general sound is due to less than ideal auditioning conditions.
This experience at Ian's house gave me a new appreciation of this speaker. His room is fine but not ideal for acoustics. It is extremely comfortable and a real pleasure to be in. Ian loves music, so the openness of the room allows him to listen less seriously while cooking in his kitchen or walking around the downstairs. I had thought that this open room would not allow the pressurization necessary to get that visceral impact from the lower frequencies that some other speakers can provide. I was wrong. The S5 delivers plenty of impact and startling dynamics and room filling sound, even in Ian's large, open floor plan.
His associated equipment is of a very high caliber. The Pass electronics and Magico are a superb combination. In this setting, the Magico S5s sounded fantastic. I think they will benefit from some more break in. I think they have about 250 hours on them now. And they will sound even better with some more judicious fine tuning to achieve their last bit of potential, but I was very impressed with the presentation yesterday. It is the best that his system has sounded to me, and I have been enjoying his hospitality for several years now.
Many of you know that I am a big Magico/Pass fan. But given my previous experiences with the S5, I was not expecting such a good demonstration. I had always preferred the sound of the Magico Q series, but after yesterday's listening session, I have a new found respect and real appreciation for these speakers. Like Myles discovered during his excellent review period, the S5 is a real achievement.
Many thanks again Ian for a wonderful afternoon listening session. The system is really sounding excellent.
Myles B. Astor
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2013
- Messages
- 2,884
Thanks for the interesting update Peter. Hadn't heard from Ian and was wondering what was going on. Plus he needs to let them break in too! 
I think the S5s are extremely cable dependent too. Not so much in the sense that some cables sound bad, but moreso that you need an ultra, ultra low noise cables to hear all the S5s are capable of resolving. In this case, the absence of noise is the presence of music!
I think the S5s are extremely cable dependent too. Not so much in the sense that some cables sound bad, but moreso that you need an ultra, ultra low noise cables to hear all the S5s are capable of resolving. In this case, the absence of noise is the presence of music!
audio.bill
Active member
Very detailed and helpful review, Peter. Thanks for taking the time to share your findings with us!
madfloyd
New member
Many thanks to Peter for being so generous with his time (including the almost 1.5-2 hour drive each way).
Peter has GREAT ears and is developing good speaker voicing skills. This is not the first time he has helped me. Also want to thank Jim Smith who was kind enough to offer some pointers for my room (which he knows since he's voiced Wilson Sashas here in the past). My room isn't easy - no two walls are parallel!
Left with my MIT cables, it wasn't quite the same after Peter left. As he mentions, the MIT have stellar bass and are overall very detailed but they have perhaps less midrange and more upper frequency energy than the Transparent and I found the presentation somewhat fatiguing. I worked for some amount of hours after Peter left but quit around 10pm. I think my ears and brain were just to burned out.
This morning I made some great progress though. I just played through three different types of music:
The Bolero is simply amazing (especially side 2 - La Valse) - this is a recent tube recording and while I don't know if it was recorded analog or digital, it sure sounds analog and the timpani is amazingly tight in my system.
Bad Company is a guilty pleasure - I know have good rockin' bottom end that is not the least bit muddy and clean, clean midrange and highs.
The Shape of Jazz To Come is, well, jaw droppingly real. Both Ornette's sax and Don Cherry's trumpet sound smooth and present - like they're in the room. No issues with any notes - all so smooth. And Charlie Haden's bass is articulate, yet thick.
This experience is not just due to the wonderful S5's but Peter tweaked my turntable setup yesterday and all I can say is 'wow'. Thanks, Peter!
Peter has GREAT ears and is developing good speaker voicing skills. This is not the first time he has helped me. Also want to thank Jim Smith who was kind enough to offer some pointers for my room (which he knows since he's voiced Wilson Sashas here in the past). My room isn't easy - no two walls are parallel!
Left with my MIT cables, it wasn't quite the same after Peter left. As he mentions, the MIT have stellar bass and are overall very detailed but they have perhaps less midrange and more upper frequency energy than the Transparent and I found the presentation somewhat fatiguing. I worked for some amount of hours after Peter left but quit around 10pm. I think my ears and brain were just to burned out.
This morning I made some great progress though. I just played through three different types of music:
The Bolero is simply amazing (especially side 2 - La Valse) - this is a recent tube recording and while I don't know if it was recorded analog or digital, it sure sounds analog and the timpani is amazingly tight in my system.
Bad Company is a guilty pleasure - I know have good rockin' bottom end that is not the least bit muddy and clean, clean midrange and highs.
The Shape of Jazz To Come is, well, jaw droppingly real. Both Ornette's sax and Don Cherry's trumpet sound smooth and present - like they're in the room. No issues with any notes - all so smooth. And Charlie Haden's bass is articulate, yet thick.
This experience is not just due to the wonderful S5's but Peter tweaked my turntable setup yesterday and all I can say is 'wow'. Thanks, Peter!
MDP
Behavior Moderator (be nice police!)
Congrats Ian on a great system, and Peter for being such a cool guy !
Well, I really liked Ian's S5, but I still prefer the Q3 based on two auditions. I still have my Mini IIs, which I love. The S3 would probably be better suited to my room than the S5. What I'm really hoping for from Magico is a curved aluminum cabinet with a curved baffle like the Q series with the Q series drivers and crossovers and two 8" woofers. That would be an ideal speaker for me. I don't know if Magico will ever design such a thing, but that would get me to trade in my Mini II.
what do you mean 2x8"? Isn't it the S3? Or you want a 2.5 way like the V2? And is so, why? That would be an inferior speaker to the S3.
I really liked the V2, but I prefer my Mini II. I'm sure the S3 is also very good.
I guess I was not clear enough. I have not heard the S3 yet. However, I'm so impressed with the Q series, that I would prefer that level of driver/crossover plus the curved front baffle. I'm hoping that they combine the curved front baffle of the Q series with the curved side walls of the S series in their next line. (Think an all aluminum M project.)
I thought the Q3 had three(3) 8" woofers, but I now see that they are 7" woofers. I would like a speaker that is smaller than the Q3 but larger than the Q1, and built to that level. I don't know if that would mean two 7" drivers or one 8" driver. I like the narrow 10.5" baffle of the Q3. I prefer the slightly more neutral and refined level of the Q series. Perhaps there is no room for such a speaker in the line up as it is already filled with the S3.
So, I see your point. Thanks.