S5 MkII review in Hi-Fi Critic

a.wayne said:
Not following your non specific posts , every driver has Mass and every speaker system architecture is usually a balancing act of compromises....

regards
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You are correct, just pointing out the compromise Magico has made in the S5 MKII, more deep bass, less midrange clarity. There is not much recorded music in the sub bass, 20Hz to 60Hz, but there is a lot of recorded music in the midrange, 250Hz to 4kHz.
 
Hiker said:
You are correct, just pointing out the compromise Magico has made in the S5 MKII, more deep bass, less midrange clarity. There is not much recorded music in the sub bass, 20Hz to 60Hz, but there is a lot of recorded music in the midrange, 250Hz to 4kHz.
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Hiker, just curious, have you heard the S5II?
 
Hiker said:
You are correct, just pointing out the compromise Magico has made in the S5 MKII, more deep bass, less midrange clarity. There is not much recorded music in the sub bass, 20Hz to 60Hz, but there is a lot of recorded music in the midrange, 250Hz to 4kHz.
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Forgive me, but i'm a little bit perplexed by your reply Hiker. Myles B Astor and several others who attended RMAF remarked that the best midrange from loudspeakers at the show was from the Vandersteen 7Mk2, followed very closely by the Magico M3. Putting all other variables aside for a moment, the M3's graphene midrange driver is the best cone midrange drive in the world at the moment imho.

Btw, to me low (sub) bass is below 40Hz, mid bass is from 40-80Hz, upper bass is from 80-160Hz, above this you are getting into the lower mids which is 160-320Hz. the midrange is from 320 to about 1KHz, from 1KHZ to 3KHz is the upper mids to me, this is also the presence region & where human hearing is the sharpest. Lower treble goes from 3KHz to 6KHz, regular treble from 6KHz to 12KHz & upper treble is anything above that.
 
Hiker said:
You are correct, just pointing out the compromise Magico has made in the S5 MKII, more deep bass, less midrange clarity. There is not much recorded music in the sub bass, 20Hz to 60Hz, but there is a lot of recorded music in the midrange, 250Hz to 4kHz.
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Yes and no,

Midrange fundamentals and timbre is affected by deep bass or lack of , so deep bass is essential in locking in real world performance, it's the difference between sounding real or sounding hi-fi. Now , i can agree , that operating in such a wide bandwidth for a small single driver would lead to higher thd at specific levels, again , by doing so there's the added touch of no xover in the critical midband and hence no phase shift. It's a compromise, specifically , a compromised that Magico felt was inherently superior to where they were before.


regards ...
 
a.wayne said:
Yes and no,

Midrange fundamentals and timbre is affected by deep bass or lack of , so deep bass is essential in locking in real world performance, it's the difference between sounding real or sounding hi-fi. Now , i can agree , that operating in such a wide bandwidth for a small single driver would lead to higher thd at specific levels, again , by doing so there's the added touch of no xover in the critical midband and hence no phase shift. It's a compromise, specifically , a compromised that Magico felt was inherently superior to where they were before.
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That is it in a nut shell. The verdict is in, the S5 v2 sounds better than the S5 v1. End of discussion.
 
a.wayne said:
Yes and no,

Midrange fundamentals and timbre is affected by deep bass or lack of , so deep bass is essential in locking in real world performance, it's the difference between sounding real or sounding hi-fi. Now , i can agree , that operating in such a wide bandwidth for a small single driver would lead to higher thd at specific levels, again , by doing so there's the added touch of no xover in the critical midband and hence no phase shift. It's a compromise, specifically , a compromised that Magico felt was inherently superior to where they were before.


regards ...
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Good balanced post. Many speaker designers, over the years, have had to deal with the issue of preserving the important midrange. Klipsch, in their Pladdium speaker, chose to have a horn-loaded midrange driver handle the predominate 500Hz to 4kHz range. They chose to have a separate direct-radiating driver handle the frequencies below 500Hz. Magico, in their Ultimate speaker, chose to have three separate horn-loaded drivers handle the midrange. Marketing does not change the laws of science and physics.
 
Hiker said:
Good balanced post. Many speaker designers, over the years, have had to deal with the issue of preserving the important midrange. Klipsch, in their Pladdium speaker, chose to have the midrange driver handle the predominate 500Hz to 4kHz range. They chose to have a separate driver handle the frequencies below 500Hz. Magico, in their Ultimate speaker, chose to have three separate drivers handle the midrange. Marketing hype does not change the laws of science and physics.
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You are confusing all sorts of issues here. The last things you want to do is crossover anything at 500Hz, that is smack in the middle of the midrange. The reason horns are like that is due to their VERY limited band pass, you have to use more drivers, with appropriate size horns to keep the efficiency at a max (think about it as a short blanket, trying to cover a large bad). That is actually one of the major drawbacks horns suffer from. Totally not relevant in the S5 case.
 
Melbguy1 said:
Forgive me, but i'm a little bit perplexed by your reply Hiker. Myles B Astor and several others who attended RMAF remarked that the best midrange from loudspeakers at the show was from the Vandersteen 7Mk2, followed very closely by the Magico M3. Putting all other variables aside for a moment, the M3's graphene midrange driver is the best cone midrange drive in the world at the moment imho.

Btw, to me low (sub) bass is below 40Hz, mid bass is from 40-80Hz, upper bass is from 80-160Hz, above this you are getting into the lower mids which is 160-320Hz. the midrange is from 320 to about 1KHz, from 1KHZ to 3KHz is the upper mids to me, this is also the presence region & where human hearing is the sharpest. Lower treble goes from 3KHz to 6KHz, regular treble from 6KHz to 12KHz & upper treble is anything above that.
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Could you tell me where I can find Myles Astor's comments on RMAF 2016? I would like to see what he had to say.

Thanks, Ken
 
The S5 mk2's are the sweet spot in the Magico lineup. Really a must audition. Trust your ears!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LVB said:
You are confusing all sorts of issues here. The last things you want to do is crossover anything at 500Hz, that is smack in the middle of the midrange. The reason horns are like that is due to their VERY limited band pass, you have to use more drivers, with appropriate size horns to keep the efficiency at a max (think about it as a short blanket, trying to cover a large bad). That is actually one of the major drawbacks horns suffer from. Totally not relevant in the S5 case.
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Speaker efficiency is a result of it's sensitivity rating, 1m/2.83v/1w. Horn loaded diaphragms are up to 10 times more efficient than similar size direct-radiating cones. Since wave lengths emanating from direct-radiating cones are coupled directly with air (high impedance meeting low impedance) changes in frequency can result in harmful artifacts, e.g., Doppler distortion, that can be recognized by the ear. If designed properly, horns are virtually immune from these harmful effects.
 
Rhapsody said:
https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/...ocky-mountain-audiofest-defies-the-odds-act-2
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Thanks for the link, Bob! Stellar review by Myles Astor of the Magico M3 / Soulution 700 Series system. I would love to hear it for myself sometime. Magico continues to break new ground with their speaker designs. Also a very impressive review by Myles of the Vandersteen 7 Mk2 / M7-HPA monoblock / ARC Reference system. I feel really blessed to own the Vandersteen system. Its organic musicality and lifelike presentation are truly amazing.

Ken
 
LVB said:
You are confusing all sorts of issues here. The last things you want to do is crossover anything at 500Hz, that is smack in the middle of the midrange. The reason horns are like that is due to their VERY limited band pass, you have to use more drivers, with appropriate size horns to keep the efficiency at a max (think about it as a short blanket, trying to cover a large bad). That is actually one of the major drawbacks horns suffer from. Totally not relevant in the S5 case.
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500 hz is not smack in the middle of the midrange ....
 
Hiker said:
Speaker efficiency is a result of it's sensitivity rating, 1m/2.83v/1w. Horn loaded diaphragms are up to 10 times more efficient than similar size direct-radiating cones. Since wave lengths emanating from direct-radiating cones are coupled directly with air (high impedance meeting low impedance) changes in frequency can result in harmful artifacts, e.g., Doppler distortion, that can be recognized by the ear. If designed properly, horns are virtually immune from these harmful effects.
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Actually, you have to consider the speaker Z when discussing efficiency. 2 different speakers can have the same sensitivity and not have the same efficiency ..


Btw , there is no panacea in audio , Horns vs Direct radiator vs ESL vs Ribbons all will suffer from issues too long to post here, we all have our truth in reproduction, there is no World greatest , all will have strenghts and weakness ...
 
a.wayne said:
Btw , there is no panacea in audio , Horns vs Direct radiator vs ESL vs Ribbons all will suffer from issue too long to post here, we all have our truth in reproduction, there is no World greatest , all will have strenghts and weakness ...
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Efficiency is important when determining the level of modulation distortion in a speaker assembly. Paul W. Klipsch proved years ago that efficiency and distortion are inversely related. That is as efficiency goes up distortion goes down.

For every 3db in efficiency one half the power is needed to reach the same SPL. Take for instance the aforementioned Vandersteen Model 7 MK 2 which has a sensitivity rating of 83 db. Compare it to the Klipsch P-37f with a sensitivity rating of 96 db. Both speakers have a 4.5" midrange driver. At 10 useable watts the SPL level for the Vandersteen can be achieved by the Klipsch with only .5 watts. This translates into significantly less moving mass in the voice coil and cone.
 
HIker ,


Do you mean 3db sensitivity ..? not efficiency , the Klipsch is actually 91db/m /W not 96db as measured by stereophile and it looks like a serious attempt by Klipsh and with a Zmin of 2.4 and such a steep phase angle, you should contact Mike for one of those big Vitus amplifiers , it's one ohm drive capability would work wonders ....


Anyway this is a Magico Thread ........ we digress :)


Regards ...
 
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