S3 Review

[Bodhi]

Kuoppis, I've heard the Wilson Alexia's in a treated room with a full lineup of ARC amps including the Ref 250's and Ref 5SE. The ARC amps are on the lean/transparent side with a slightly forward treble presentation. I agree with Keith's comments that the warmer, more harmonically rich Vac amps would be a better match with the S series. And from Myles feedback, the CJ Gat and Art amps also have good synergy.

I've also heard the S3 on about 3 occasions in different systems. When I heard the S3’s, the improvement in midrange clarity and freedom stood out and was impressive, though ultimately I found the lack of deep bass and a perception of slightly less resolution/texture in the bass unsatisfying (compared to the S5’s). Together with the prominent midrange I felt the S3’s were not as well balanced top to bottom or as satisfying as the S5’s, though taken by itself, the update to the midrange enclosure seems very successful.

Btw, the S5's also have a separate midrange enclosure. Magico describe the S5's midrange enclosure as "a substantial fabrication of alloy plate with no parallel walls, thus physically inert and essentially lacking internal resonant reflections". I asked Martin Colloms about the difference between the S3's polycarbonate enclosure and the S5's alloy enclosure to which he replied - "Customers can become to obsessed with small manufacturing changes, some of these are not improvements per se for that design, but are introduced to ease manufacturing issues." According to the NRC, the S5 has the lowest level of THD they ever measured.

 

[Kuoppis]

Kuoppis, I've heard the Wilson Alexia's in a treated room with a full lineup of ARC amps including the Ref 250's and Ref 5SE. The ARC amps are on the lean/transparent side with a slightly forward treble presentation. I agree with Keith's comments that the warmer, more harmonically rich Vac amps would be a better match with the S series. And from Myles feedback, the CJ Gat and Art amps also have good synergy.

I've also heard the S3 on about 3 occasions in different systems. When I heard the S3’s, the improvement in midrange clarity and freedom stood out and was impressive, though ultimately I found the lack of deep bass and a perception of slightly less resolution/texture in the bass unsatisfying (compared to the S5’s). Together with the prominent midrange I felt the S3’s were not as well balanced top to bottom or as satisfying as the S5’s, though taken by itself, the update to the midrange enclosure seems very successful.

Btw, the S5's also have a separate midrange enclosure. Magico describe the S5's midrange enclosure as "a substantial fabrication of alloy plate with no parallel walls, thus physically inert and essentially lacking internal resonant reflections". I asked Martin Colloms about the difference between the S3's polycarbonate enclosure and the S5's alloy enclosure to which he replied - "Customers can become to obsessed with small manufacturing changes, some of these are not improvements per se for that design, but are introduced to ease manufacturing issues." According to the NRC, the S5 has the lowest level of THD they ever measured.

Hi Bodhi,

Thank you for the comments, this is similar to what I have observed, it ultimately boils down to the bass heft of the S5 vs. the significant midrange improvements in the S3.

For me personally the midrange is more important, as this is where most of the music, vocals etc. play. Also, the S5 has more bass, while the never model articulates it more clearly. I had also the choice between the Q3 and the S3 and chose the latter, as it is more similar to the new Magico voicing, also featured in the Q7 remake. While the Q3 is outstanding, I find it a tad too dry. The S5 is very nice, but I also prefer the monocoque housing of the S3.

And finally, unfortunately used S5s are already falling in prices to below S3 level which is a financial risk. As I do want to trade in the S3 at some point, the S3 offers a longer window of opportunity to act.

Regards,
Kuoppis

PS: To be entirely accurate, the midrange enclosure is only featured in the S3. The S5 has what all hi end speakers have, compartmentalisation of the different ranges.

 

[Bodhi]

Hi Bodhi,

Thank you for the comments, this is similar to what I have observed, it ultimately boils down to the bass heft of the S5 vs. the significant midrange improvements in the S3.

For me personally the midrange is more important, as this is where most of the music, vocals etc. play. Also, the S5 has more bass, while the never model articulates it more clearly. I had also the choice between the Q3 and the S3 and chose the latter, as it is more similar to the new Magico voicing, also featured in the Q7 remake. While the Q3 is outstanding, I find it a tad too dry. The S5 is very nice, but I also prefer the monocoque housing of the S3.

And finally, unfortunately used S5s are already falling in prices to below S3 level which is a financial risk. As I do want to trade in the S3 at some point, the S3 offers a longer window of opportunity to act.

Regards,
Kuoppis

PS: To be entirely accurate, the midrange enclosure is only featured in the S3. The S5 has what all hi end speakers have, compartmentalisation of the different ranges.

YW Kuoppis, I wouldn't describe the differences as such. "Bass heft" suggests the S5's have bloated bass which they do not. I would choose the term "substantial" to describe the improvement in the S3's midrange performance. But ultimately for me, the S3's midrange, although excellent, 'stuck out' and was prominent compared to the rest of the music spectrum.

In comparison, the S5's bass went deeper, was more composed, offered more resolution/texture, a larger sound stage & I felt the frequency spectrum was better balanced top to bottom compared to the S3's. I'm sure that in the right size room the S3 would shine, but in my medium size room the S5 was clearly the better speaker.

Re: midrange enclosures; like the S3, the S5's midrange enclosure was designed specifically for that speaker and according to Magico and reviewer Martin Colloms, is very effective. And as I mentioned, the S5 has the lowest THD of any speaker the NHC ever measured. Resale value is a relative thing and should only bother you if a/ you don't plan on keeping your speakers a long time and/or b/ you paid anywhere near full list price for them. I answered yes to the first question, and no to the second.

 

[Kuoppis]

YW Kuoppis, I wouldn't describe the differences as such. "Bass heft" suggests the S5's have bloated bass which they do not. I would choose the word "substantial" improvement to describe the midrange performance of the S3. But ultimately for me, the S3's midrange, although excellent, 'stuck out' and was prominent compared to the rest of the music spectrum.

In comparison, the S5's bass went deeper, was more composed, offered more resolution/texture, a larger sound stage and I felt the frequency spectrum was better balanced top to bottom compared to the S3's. I'm sure that in the right size room the S3 would shine, but in my medium size room the S5 was clearly the better speaker.

Re: midrange enclosures; like the S3, the S5's midrange enclosure was designed specifically for that speaker and according to Magico and reviewer Martin Colloms, is very effective. And as I mentioned, the S5 has the lowest THD of any speaker the NHC ever measured. Resale value is a relative thing and should only bother you if a/ you don't plan on keeping your speakers a long time and/or b/ you paid anywhere near full list price for them. I answered yes to the first question, and no to the second.

Hi Bodhi,

the S5 sits higher is the range, no doubt about that. Personally I am however very careful with adjectives like better or worse, as this is a very personal thing. Everyone has their perspective.

These are not my first Magico, I am currently listening to the S1s with my missus sitting next to me. So, it's a family thing. I don't do airplane landing level volumes etc. and am extremely happy with the sound of the S1s. I am just upgrading to the S3 because I can and as keeping the older S1 would just lead to further drop in value. This the only really weak part of owning Magicos.

I will definitely upgrade the S3s in a couple of years, as I usually do not keep my stuff for very long. Just because its fun to try something new. I already guess my next Magicos will be the M Project, I'm quite intrigued about those.

You might indeed be right about the S3 being voiced more according to current mainstream, but I must say I do enjoy it. As I don't do tubes, because I do not want to bother and do not accept the variations they bring to SQ, I need a setup that sounds nice within my audio chain. I do have twenty series Ayres, which some describe as a tad cold and a Meitner DAC, which is sometimes perceived the same way. Hence, in my eyes there is no absolute sound of any equiment, but they are rather always part of the a chain of components and operating within a certain acoustic environment. The sum of the parts need to fit, optimising any one single element is stopping short of what you need to achieve.

Second reason is, as there are no tubes that can drive Magicos properly, I need to bring in the warmth somehow. They just do need powerful transistors to shine (voiced with Constellation electronics).

Regards,
Kuoppis

 

[Bodhi]

Hi Kuoppis,

I accept there is only the "best" speaker for your equipment, room and taste. The rest doesn't matter. Good move stepping up to the S3 which is a much better speaker than the S1 imho & in the US atleast, is probably a smarter short-term investment than the S5. In Australia, and more locally in Victorian S5's rarely come up for sale so resale isn't really an issue. But I agree, you need to have an eye on the future.

The only issue with the M Projects is their $129kUS price, and being so rare and desireable, they aren't likely to come down much in price any time soon. I haven't heard the Ayre amps being described as 'cold' before. The usual description is quiet, smooth, airy and mellifluous. I agree, system synergy is key. I always aim to keep my system balanced, giving a little more weight to the speakers.

I'd rate Vac and the CJ Gat/Art amps as an excellent match with the Magico S series if you're thus inclined. I've found the Vitus Signature Series has the best overall synergy with the S5's if you include dacs/cdp's. I'm a digital guy, but VA's phono stages are pretty awesome as well if you're into vinyl.

Cheers,
Bodhi.

 

[Kuoppis]

Agreed, pricing development definitely varies per market. Ideally it would also make sense to keep the gear a little longer, but that wouldn't be so much fun, would it? :snicker:

Pegarding the M Project's $129kUS price tag, yes indeed, there is this little price thing. That is beyond unreasonable. Let's see what the 04/2015 update is all about and we might soon be a bit wiser about future wishes.

Regarding sources I'm also purely digital, by choice. And since Ivor Tiefenbrunn convinced himself after ABC tests, that there is no additional merit to vinyl, I am inclined to think so too.

The amps are also a matter of taste, some think tubes are a must because transistors do sound dead, others do not want the fuss. Even in those two camps there are many alternatives. Magico and Devialet is a rather popular combination (in addition to the manufacturer favored Constellations and Solutions), in my ears again Devialet sounds lifeless. I like lightning fast transient speed and microdetails, so I side with Ayre.

The speaker and amp choices are very interrelated, Magicos need power to shine, the more the merrier.

Chacun à son goût.

/Kuoppis

 

[Bodhi]

I can see myself keeping my SIA-025 integrated for 5-6 years as I don't see any pressing need or desire to invest in more or better amplication. I can think of two audio components which would be higher up the list including better speakers (not that i'm unhappy with my S5's).

M Project? Mmm out of my league.

I think the belief "Magico's need power to shine, the more the merrier" stems from the very innefficient Q5's and Q1, as well as one or two earlier models. The S series, and models which have followed the S series are more efficient and have bucked that trend. Martin Colloms measurements of the S5's incidicated they are a moderately difficult load being 88db into a 4 ohm load with a 2.4 ohm dip & 72 degree phase angle @40 Hz, so the S5's needs an amp with a stable power supply and good current, but not a behemoth by any means. And future models including the new Magico offering will be more, not less efficient. So given my SIA-025 already handles my S5's well, I don't have to worry about my amp.

I used to own a Boulder 1060 & 1010. Yes, super fast, quiet and detailed. I enjoyed my time with Boulder, but I now prefer the still fast and detailed, but harmonically rich, textured and mellifluous sound i'm hearing from the Magico/Vitus pairing. Audiophiles are certainly spoiled for choice!

Bodhi.

 

[Dpod4]

I have been surprised at how my S5s take on a very different character mid bass and below depending upon amp used. A lot of variation more than any other speaker I have owned. Maybe it is due to the 2.4 ohm dip I don't know. But big amps like the VAC 450 didn't have the extension of the Constellation, and the Constellation didn't have the growl and physical impact of the Marantz monos. Even my Maggies didn't vary this much.

 

[Bodhi]

I think the room has an equally big influence on how much of a difference different amps make in terms of perception of low end control and extension.

 

[Kuoppis]

I can see myself keeping my SIA-025 integrated for 5-6 years as I don't see any pressing need or desire to invest in more or better amplication. I can think of two audio components which would be higher up the list including better speakers (not that i'm unhappy with my S5's).

M Project? Mmm out of my league.

I think the belief "Magico's need power to shine, the more the merrier" stems from the very innefficient Q5's and Q1, as well as one or two earlier models. The S series, and models which have followed the S series are more efficient and have bucked that trend. Martin Colloms measurements of the S5's incidicated they are a moderately difficult load being 88db into a 4 ohm load with a 2.4 ohm dip & 72 degree phase angle @40 Hz, so the S5's needs an amp with a stable power supply and good current, but not a behemoth by any means. And future models including the new Magico offering will be more, not less efficient. So given my SIA-025 already handles my S5's well, I don't have to worry about my amp.

I used to own a Boulder 1060 & 1010. Yes, super fast, quiet and detailed. I enjoyed my time with Boulder, but I now prefer the still fast and detailed, but harmonically rich, textured and mellifluous sound i'm hearing from the Magico/Vitus pairing. Audiophiles are certainly spoiled for choice!

Bodhi.

Hi Bodhi,

I would say it's hard to go wrong with Vitus. And agree about the harmonics, they are very nice.

The evolution path of the Magico line-up seems to indeed go into that direction. Some models are still a bit tricky, like the Q3. Per specs relatively moderate, but in practical terms they just demand power. Funny enough, my previous S1s are only rated at 86 db.

There however is also another thing: power does not equal power. E.g. some of the Solution amps are not immensely powerful per specs. But I think most people would agree, what they deliver is of prestine quality.

Regards,
Kuoppis

 

[socfan12]

I have been surprised at how my S5s take on a very different character mid bass and below depending upon amp used. A lot of variation more than any other speaker I have owned. Maybe it is due to the 2.4 ohm dip I don't know. But big amps like the VAC 450 didn't have the extension of the Constellation, and the Constellation didn't have the growl and physical impact of the Marantz monos. Even my Maggies didn't vary this much.

Darrin, I think the S5s are extremely transparent to upstream components and take on the character of what's being fed to them. Tweak to perfect the sound you love. Truly amazing speakers!:audiophile:

 

[LVB]

Darrin, I think the S5s are extremely transparent to upstream components and take on the character of what's being fed to them. Tweak to perfect the sound you love. Truly amazing speakers!:audiophile:

+1

Imagine, a speaker that actually let you hear what you put in to it, what a weird concept...
Yes, the VAC will not be as extended as the Constellation and now you can clearly hear it because you have a speaker that actually have a real extension and resolution at the same time.

 

[mauidan]

I'm sure S3 and S5 are great sounding speakers, but the speaker at the S3's price point I'd really like to hear is the Rockport Atria.

BTW, I haven't seen any of the AS Devialet owners describe the sound as "lifeless."

 

[tunes]

I think the room has an equally big influence on how much of a difference different amps make in terms of perception of low end control and extension.

Agreed.
I heard the s3 set up with moon/aurender/shunyata gear in one of filtronique's smaller listening rooms yesterday. They had decided to run an event concurrent to the montreal audio show in their store instead of setup at the show. Trent had the s3 dialed in nicely in such a moderate room. Midrange and bass were excellent. Streaming the XX was terrific.

 

[Kuoppis]

I'm sure S3 and S5 are great sounding speakers, but the speaker at the S3's price point I'd really like to hear is the Rockport Atria.

BTW, I haven't seen any of the AS Devialet owners describe the sound as "lifeless."

Well, I'm from Europe, so it's a different thing. There's quite a number of us who had them, loved them and sold them.

 

[Solecky]

Agreed, pricing development definitely varies per market. Ideally it would also make sense to keep the gear a little longer, but that wouldn't be so much fun, would it? :snicker:

Pegarding the M Project's $129kUS price tag, yes indeed, there is this little price thing. That is beyond unreasonable. Let's see what the 04/2015 update is all about and we might soon be a bit wiser about future wishes.

Regarding sources I'm also purely digital, by choice. And since Ivor Tiefenbrunn convinced himself after ABC tests, that there is no additional merit to vinyl, I am inclined to think so too.

The amps are also a matter of taste, some think tubes are a must because transistors do sound dead, others do not want the fuss. Even in those two camps there are many alternatives. Magico and Devialet is a rather popular combination (in addition to the manufacturer favored Constellations and Solutions), in my ears again Devialet sounds lifeless. I like lightning fast transient speed and microdetails, so I side with Ayre.

The speaker and amp choices are very interrelated, Magicos need power to shine, the more the merrier.

Chacun à son goût.

/Kuoppis

Question, I have s3s too, are hrs on still points if so please comment

 

[Kuoppis]

Question, I have s3s too, are hrs on still points if so please comment

Hi,

Quite nice gear I see, now you need the Twenty upgrades - but that's going to hurt :wacko:.

But indeed, I do have all my gear on Stillpoints, except the Magicos, am however considering the Ultra SS. So, unfortunately I cannot tell about the impact on the LS just yet.

Regards,
Kuoppis

 

[mauidan]

Well, I'm from Europe, so it's a different thing. There's quite a number of us who had them, loved them and sold them.

LOL.

So, the Devialets sound different in Europe?

It seems all the recent rave reviews of the D400 by top US reviewers didn't hear that "lifeless" quality.

 

[Bodhi]

Question, I have s3s too, are hrs on still points if so please comment

Solecky, we're installing Stillpoints Ultra 5's + Ultra bases under my S5's in the next 2-3 wks, as well as Ultra 6's + Ultra bases under my amp, front end & conditioner. Stay tuned, i'll be posting a system thread soon with photos & also updating the Stillpoints thread :audiophile:.

 

[Kuoppis]

LOL.

So, the Devialets sound different in Europe?

It seems all the recent rave reviews of the D400 by top US reviewers didn't hear that "lifeless" quality.

Well, that's a more interesting one than some might think. While I guess you did not really mean that, there indeed is something like a US sound signature vs. European sound signature etc. If you do live in a certain environment long enough you get used to your 'local' sound signature and start to perceive it as 'correct'. It's a little bit similar to the Coke receipe being altered for the varying tastes in different countries.

But the point about Devialet is that, as it is a European product, the Devialet fever started earlier in Europe and ebbed down earlier. There still are many people who like them, but Devialets are now much less considered the holy grail of hi end audio than they used to be. In the meantime there are excellent Class D amps like e.g. the Corona from MBL, but they're not everyone's cup of tea. Devialet is trying to cheat and creates the impuls for their A/D hybrid amplification in Class A while the power comes from Class D components. Some love it, some say it still sounds a tad dry, as Class D gear tends to do.

Further, some people do rave about the SAM adjustment, some people do absolutely not want to touch it.

So, sorry if I hurt your feelings as a Devialet owner or future owner, still great gear. But also, IMHO, reviewers can evaluate different properties of audio gear, but I still have to find the scribe who can tell exactlty how something sounds to my ears and within my acoustic boundaries.