PS Audio P20 vs Denali 6000/S V2?

bernardl said:
We know that at least 2 PS audio power plant users have not had issues. :-)

But yes, this thread won’t allow us to get a view of how widespread their problems are. It seems clear that they have had some quality issues which can be very annoying with extremely heavy units such as the P20.

I would still be interested in feedbacks regarding the respective benefits in terms of power cleaning from those having compared the P20 and Denali 6000/S V2.

Regards,
Bernard
Click to expand...

All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.
 
Puma Cat said:
All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.
Click to expand...


I believe there is a member here with MSB Select 2 and the new MSB Monos +Magico speakers but, has the P20. Another member with EMM Pre +DV2 but, I think he is trying out Shunyata in his system to compare to the PS.

At least form what I recall reading.

IMHO only two main power engineers in High End Audio. Caelin Gabriel (Shunyata) and Garth Powell of AudioQuest (Formerly Furman)

I'm sure there are other fine products out there but, these two are at the top of their game.

Who is the engineer behind the Power Plants? We hear a lot from them promoting Ted Smith's DAC and Bascom King's amps as example.

But, nothing on their power products... Hmmmm:|
 
The BHK series of products have had their share of in-service issues as well, corrosion, wrong parts fitted at factory, buzz/hum/clicking noises, it's all laid bare to read about it in the PS forums. We are not talking about a few instances here and there, there are hundreds of reports of problematic gear across the full spectrum of the PS product range.
 
brodricj said:
The BHK series of products have had their share of in-service issues as well, corrosion, wrong parts fitted at factory, buzz/hum/clicking noises, it's all laid bare to read about it in the PS forums. We are not talking about a few instances here and there, there are hundreds of reports of problematic gear across the full spectrum of the PS product range.
Click to expand...

This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

I refused to sell another pair after that.
 
Mike said:
This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

I refused to sell another pair after that.
Click to expand...

Mike,

That was awful when that happened to those beautiful speakers of yours. I would have been out exactly then too.

Ken
 
With no shows, their new model will struggle. Instead of getting rid of the few bad dealers, those guys working from home mostly, they went in an entirely different direction. Very risky IMO.

Out of sight, out of mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Puma Cat said:
All I can say is that I know someone (who some folks here also know as well) on another forum who had many PS Audio P20s in all of his system(s), and upon getting his first Denali V2, pulled out virtually all his P20s, sold them, and replaced all of them with Denali V2s.
Click to expand...
OK, but as we all know, one cannot draw any statistically valid inferences regarding product line quality from a sample N of 1.
 
Diogenes said:
...one cannot draw any statistically valid inferences regarding product line quality from a sample N of 1.
Click to expand...

There are hundreds of complaints on the PS forums from customers who have QC problems across the whole range of the product line for many years.

And I have direct experience of this having owned (maybe) 20 PS Audio products that either didn't work as intended, broke down, didn't work at all out of the box, were wired backwards, or had quality issues like chassis screws missing, not assembled square or not done up properly. They've even sent me spare parts that didn't work to fix stuff that didn't work! And to be clear, everything was brand new A-stock items shipped directly from the factory.
 
brodricj said:
There are hundreds of complaints on the PS forums from customers who have QC problems across the whole range of the product line for many years.

And I have direct experience of this having owned (maybe) 20 PS Audio products that either didn't work as intended, broke down, didn't work at all out of the box, were wired backwards, or had quality issues like chassis screws missing, not assembled square or not done up properly. They've even sent me spare parts that didn't work to fix stuff that didn't work! And to be clear, everything was brand new A-stock items shipped directly from the factory.
Click to expand...

Yep....this is why I posted what you've quoted. An N of 1 "happy" customer is not a valid or representative data set of overall product quality.

Hopefully, PS Audio is doing the appropriate DPMO calcuations or calculating their process sigma. Assuming they know what that is, of course.
 
From what I understand they are happy with a failure rate of <1%. Bearing in mind hundreds of complaints against thousands of products shipped has them achieve that target. In my experience with the brand over 20 years, until I recently stopped buying any more of their junk, the quality issues have been evident all that time to about the same degree. However, monitoring their forum now in a passive capacity, I've got a hunch the Stellar product line isn't as problem prone as everything that came before it.
 
brodricj said:
From what I understand they are happy with a failure rate of <1%. Bearing in mind hundreds of complaints against thousands of products shipped has them achieve that target. In my experience with the brand over 20 years, until I recently stopped buying any more of their junk, the quality issues have been evident all that time to about the same degree. However, monitoring their forum now in a passive capacity, I've got a hunch the Stellar product line isn't as problem prone as everything that came before it.
Click to expand...

A failure rate of ≤ 1% is a great way to lose money and erode margin from COPQ. Just to put things in perspective, the failure rate for a six sigma process is 3.4 defects per milliion opportunities, factoring in a 1.5 sigma shift over time. Minimally, their Cp/Cpk should be ≥ 1.33 if they don't want to bleed themselves white with quality failures.
 
Wild guess here, but they've probably crunched the numbers and found it to be more economic to wear the cost of warranty fixes than to fix the root causes of why so much stuff gets out the factory door that doesn't work properly (whether that be design, manufacture, testing, final inspections, etc).
 
There are hundreds of happy customers posting their delight with the products. In fact, if one visits the forum the bulk of the posts are by people enjoying the products, posting about music, etc.

We also need to keep in mind no forum is an accurate reflection of overall product satisfaction. Self-selection is only one problem. Problems appear much bigger than they are as a result. Those with problems tend to post to complain, where as the bulk of happy consumers simply enjoy their product and never bother to post. Additionally, few audio companies have the balls to provide a forum where unhappy customers can sign in and have at it.

And then there are those for whom bashing PS Audio is a hobby. One sees the same few repeating the same complaint, posting over and over and over. Dead horses everywhere. OR expressed differently, N of 1 stated a thousand times remains N of 1. One would think the owner of PS Audio stole their lunch money while they were both in middle school.

On topic: The Denali 6000/S v2 Power Conditioner is an excellent product which appears to have solved the problem of dynamic compression most power conditioners exhibit. It is an impressive piece of kit at a relatively rational price.
 
It would appear that this genuine question ended up being a bit touchy.

This was not the intent.

I would propose to focus the discussion on the effectiveness of power cleaning instead of focusing on quality issues.

Thank you.

Regards,
Bernard
 
Mike said:
This. And passing DC due to a “design flaw” and destroying a pair of speakers at a dealers (me).

I refused to sell another pair after that.
Click to expand...

believe Krell and BAT both were known to react to DC leakage due to no caps in the signal path - just be sure what preamp you are using.
 
KeithR said:
believe Krell and BAT both were known to react to DC leakage due to no caps in the signal path - just be sure what preamp you are using.
Click to expand...

PS Audio’s BHK at the time. So, it was definitely PS Audio related. KABOOM!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
I'd probably go Torus or Furman on the cheap or another isolation transformer like Audioquest instead of either.

I find Shunyata strips harmonics out of the sound in the quest to "reduce noise." Most people I know have sold off their Tritons, Typhons, and Hydras over the years because of it. That said, I haven't heard the new Denali and for all I know it could be the real deal. The one I always wanted to own was the first wooden Hydra. I purchased a Sound Application strip which turned out to be a big joke instead.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top