Myles - VERY interesting stuff. Never thought about this. Makes complete sense.
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PS Audio DirectStream DAC
- Thread starter Joe P
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Myles B. Astor
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I'm sure that many saw the controversy about the $1600 or so crystal discs? (Yes the piece says $2000, but think they are now priced at $15-1600 each.)
The $2000 CD Made From Glass | The Absolute Sound
Luxury hard glass Crystal CD packs JVC?s K2HD audio technology - SlashGear
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10151746268238559
??CD : Modern Audio
Wow! And they say vinyl is expensive.
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Myles B. Astor
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Just some more food for controversy:
The following description is provided by Memory-Tech in Japan to tell us what Crystal Disc is:
Crystal disc, a revolutionary Compact Disc using glass substrate, this new technology allows sound reproduction at a level previously unknown and is as close to the master sound source as cutting edge technology allows. For this purpose, Crystal disc is fabricated by our Laser Disc technology cultivated over many years with using the best selected materials.
■ The use of glass substrate instead of conventional polycarbonate substrate. As the reflective layer, gold is adopted in exchange for conventional aluminum.
■ For pit transcription, Photo Polymerization process (2P process) using a metal stamper is adopted. This process makes pit transcription highly precise compared with the conventional injection molding process. The technology of 2P process was cultivated by our production of test discs for calibrating industrial optical pick up heads.
■ Surface flatness of glass substrate is much superior to the conventional CD. Glass substrate is hardly influenced by the variation of temperature and humidity. Furthermore, the absence of bi-refringence coming from the optical uniformity of glass substrate realized signal with extremely low noise and low jitter.
The following description is provided by Memory-Tech in Japan to tell us what Crystal Disc is:
Crystal disc, a revolutionary Compact Disc using glass substrate, this new technology allows sound reproduction at a level previously unknown and is as close to the master sound source as cutting edge technology allows. For this purpose, Crystal disc is fabricated by our Laser Disc technology cultivated over many years with using the best selected materials.
■ The use of glass substrate instead of conventional polycarbonate substrate. As the reflective layer, gold is adopted in exchange for conventional aluminum.
■ For pit transcription, Photo Polymerization process (2P process) using a metal stamper is adopted. This process makes pit transcription highly precise compared with the conventional injection molding process. The technology of 2P process was cultivated by our production of test discs for calibrating industrial optical pick up heads.
■ Surface flatness of glass substrate is much superior to the conventional CD. Glass substrate is hardly influenced by the variation of temperature and humidity. Furthermore, the absence of bi-refringence coming from the optical uniformity of glass substrate realized signal with extremely low noise and low jitter.
Myles B. Astor
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Of course may be a moot subject with hi-rez downloading nowadays.
Mike Lavigne
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we did a listening session in my room involving the Crystal Disc last year which may be of interest to some of you. it compared various versions of a particular recording and files from different formats. it starts with this post and then proceeds for a few pages.
Crystal Disc US$1600 was played with Genesis Speaker - Page 29
Crystal Disc US$1600 was played with Genesis Speaker - Page 29
mep
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I guess my point is that the comparison was between a hi-rez PCM download and an SHM PCM disc made from the master tapes by the same engineer as well as a DSD version. Regardless of the difference(s) between hearing a hi-rez PCM download and a SHM CD, I still suspect they would sound closer to each other in terms of overall sound quality than either one would compared to the DSD version.
I have only heard one SHM CD and that was the Steely Dan "Asia" album. The guy who owned the SHM version of "Asia" was quite proud of it and thought it sounded great. As soon as he put the disc on, I knew it was severely lacking compared to the vinyl version (pick any one). I asked him if he had "Asia" on vinyl and he did. I gave it a quick spin on his VPI 16.5 and we played it and it was immediately apparent that the vinyl version was FAR superior.
I have only heard one SHM CD and that was the Steely Dan "Asia" album. The guy who owned the SHM version of "Asia" was quite proud of it and thought it sounded great. As soon as he put the disc on, I knew it was severely lacking compared to the vinyl version (pick any one). I asked him if he had "Asia" on vinyl and he did. I gave it a quick spin on his VPI 16.5 and we played it and it was immediately apparent that the vinyl version was FAR superior.
Myles B. Astor
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Thanks for the link Mike!
radioactive
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I sincerely apologize. The Japanese didn't translate into what I posted. I went back and looked at my original post and noticed English characters not in the translation. Here's what the Japanese translated to:
[Warner Premium Sound series ~ SACD / CD hybrid specification ~] immortal masterpiece album of the 20th century. This participation is instead Joe Walsh to Bernie Ridon than work. More powerful and sharpness good sound is completed here. SACD / CD hybrid panel. 5.1ch surround & stereo voice recording. Commentary lyrics, with translation.
So Mike may be right. The SHM SACD may very well come direct from the master. I suppose there are a few possibilities such as the substrate SHM(Super Hi Material) really makes a huge difference, or perhaps PCM doesn't sound as good as DSD. I, like Miles, may be "skewered and ridiculed", but I did convert this DSD to 24/192 FLAC and found it didn't sound the same as the DSD. I found it sounded more like the HDTracks version, but again I did apply filters to reduce the "inaudible" spectrum that DSD has that can make for crazy large PCM files.
What I'd like to know now is the provenance of the SHM SACD of Hotel California -- what was it made from and how was it mastered? I did some additional searching but couldn't find much. Does anyone know??
Edit 10/29 -- I just assumed this SACD was an SHM SACD since it came from Japan -- it's not. It doesn't say SHM anywhere on the disc or materials. I looked and don't even believe there is a version of Hotel California in SHM SACD. There is a CD version, but not an SACD version. So now more head scratching. The inner liner mentions that it was 5.1 remastered at Sterling Sound in NY. I happen to know someone there and am going to send them a note to see what they say.
Bryan
[Warner Premium Sound series ~ SACD / CD hybrid specification ~] immortal masterpiece album of the 20th century. This participation is instead Joe Walsh to Bernie Ridon than work. More powerful and sharpness good sound is completed here. SACD / CD hybrid panel. 5.1ch surround & stereo voice recording. Commentary lyrics, with translation.
So Mike may be right. The SHM SACD may very well come direct from the master. I suppose there are a few possibilities such as the substrate SHM(Super Hi Material) really makes a huge difference, or perhaps PCM doesn't sound as good as DSD. I, like Miles, may be "skewered and ridiculed", but I did convert this DSD to 24/192 FLAC and found it didn't sound the same as the DSD. I found it sounded more like the HDTracks version, but again I did apply filters to reduce the "inaudible" spectrum that DSD has that can make for crazy large PCM files.
What I'd like to know now is the provenance of the SHM SACD of Hotel California -- what was it made from and how was it mastered? I did some additional searching but couldn't find much. Does anyone know??
Edit 10/29 -- I just assumed this SACD was an SHM SACD since it came from Japan -- it's not. It doesn't say SHM anywhere on the disc or materials. I looked and don't even believe there is a version of Hotel California in SHM SACD. There is a CD version, but not an SACD version. So now more head scratching. The inner liner mentions that it was 5.1 remastered at Sterling Sound in NY. I happen to know someone there and am going to send them a note to see what they say.
Bryan
RDSChicago
Member
To revive this thread, is the DIRECTSTREAM DAC still considered state of the art? For those who loved it a few years back, is the love still there? If something replaced that love, what DAC was it?
Can't say if its still state of art or not hardware wise but obviously has the potential to improve down the line with free firmware upgrades. I bought it when it was released and still have it. If you have a lot of SACDs (or still spinning disc), then the DMP + DS combo can be hard to beat.
audio.bill
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From my perspective the DS DAC isn't quite considered state of the art, but represents a good value at its price (especially since it's often available brand new at significant discounts.) The support of their ongoing firmware updates makes its ownership an even more appealing proposition for many enthusiasts.