Power Cords

[BlueFox]

I agree with Skip in regard to cabling. I consider clean power, good cables, and effective vibration control to be the foundation for a good stereo. Get the foundation solid and you can add new gear and expect it to work at, or near, optimum, right from the start.

This is just my opinion here, so don’t go ballistic, but I feel using cables to tune a system is one of the stupidest things done in audio.

 

[octadyndude]

I'm quite the opposite. While you may not need to invest in endgame cabling solutions, having a solid baseline in all cable arenas is second only to basic room treatments in being able to hear what a component change REALLY brings to the table. Differences that were once indistinguishable can stand out like sore thumbs once those two areas are addressed.

As far as Pangea goes, the original cables were a step up from generic stock cables but the SE version of the 14 was a decent cable for the money, especially used. The 9 is just a stupid cable by design (talk about stiff!) and doesn't sound much better than it bends. I'm not sure if they improved that issue on later versions or not but I had no intention of finding out.

I stand corrected and I have to agree with that part. What I was referring to was uber expensive "end game" cabling. Best to start with a good foundation from the wall.

 

[still-one]

This is just my opinion here, so don’t go ballistic, but I feel using cables to tune a system is one of the stupidest things done in audio.

I disagree with you 100%!! Every piece of gear "tunes" your system to get is closer to what you want to hear. Why would you pay money for something that does nothing? People choose tubes or SS because one or the other gets them closer to what they want to hear. Once they purchase tube gear they swap tubes to get the sound closer to what they want to hear. You chose amps that drive your speakers to get them closer to what you want to hear. I position my chair to get me closer to what I want to hear. Some individuals use tone controls to get them closer to waht they want to hear. Every single time you add, change or remove something from your system or room you are tuning the sound to get it closer to what you want to hear.

 

[jadedavid]

Both agreeing and expounding upon what Still One just said, I think of cables like spice when cooking. You first get your main ingredients first then you add the spices to finish the recipe.
I think the majority here have heard the differences that cables make in a system. Put in a cable that doesn't compliment your systems balance and you will hear it right away. (and get it out of the system quickly).
Think about it, why is The Cable Co sucessfull with their lending library?
Add the right spices (cables) and get wonderful results. Add the wrong spices (cables) and you will be dissapointed.
So I ask, why would it be stupid to use cables to tune your system?

 

[BlueFox]

As I said, this is my opinion. A cable should be as neutral as possible. It should neither add or detract to the signal being transmitted. If you need to change the cable because you changed a piece of gear then you have a major design issue.

 

[jadedavid]

Bud
If cables were truly neutral then you would be correct. But they are not. Some pass certain frequencies better than other (band pass). All have an inherent resonance that color the sound to some degree in one direction or the other.
When changing components you must take into account the output impedance of the two (or more) pieces in the chain (among other variables).
It is clear that this whole cable thing is not an exact science. You can't list your components in a database somewhere and press enter and receive the "suggested" cable information.
All I'm saying is, "use the wrong cables in your system and you will know it".

 

[SCAudiophile]

I disagree with you 100%!! Every piece of gear "tunes" your system to get is closer to what you want to hear. Why would you pay money for something that does nothing? People choose tubes or SS because one or the other gets them closer to what they want to hear. Once they purchase tube gear they swap tubes to get the sound closer to what they want to hear. You chose amps that drive your speakers to get them closer to what you want to hear. I position my chair to get me closer to what I want to hear. Some individuals use tone controls to get them closer to waht they want to hear. Every single time you add, change or remove something from your system or room you are tuning the sound to get it closer to what you want to hear.

Agreed on all counts....bear in mind I NEVER would have believed 15-20+ years ago that power cables could tune a system or that one or another could better, worse or indifferent synergy with a given component, amplifier, etc....Many years later after hearing that some pc's make some amps sound positively dark and brooding as they are not a good match versus others that open them up and show all they are capable of, I know that I was either wrong all these years or that the state of metallurgical sciences and science in general behind these cables plus superior manufacturing techniques available versus 20-25+ years ago has advanced to such a level that we are seeing its effects in audio and video quality.

I'm not sure why people get emotional on this topic (not here but certainly on other forums like Audiogon but then the trolls there need a life LOL!); the world laughed at the concept of 'super conductors' many, many years ago but no one laughs anymore and several Nobel Prizes followed I believe as all accept that the theory is in fact reality. Audio and Video somehow attract greater than their share of skeptics and naysayers...

 

[Mike]

I have a retired engineer who works with me in the store part-time. He used to work at VAC, among other places. Great guy. He LOVES to try out power cables. I just leave him alone in the store. There is no doubt there are big differences in power cables IF THE SYSTEM IS REVEALING enough. If you have a really colored speaker and a really colored amp, the differences won't be as noticeable. That's been my findings.

 

[Glareskin]

I am not sure if available in the US but I am a big fan of power- and other audio cables from ViaBlue. If soundstage is your thing give it a try!

 

[SCAudiophile]

I have a retired engineer who works with me in the store part-time. He used to work at VAC, among other places. Great guy. He LOVES to try out power cables. I just leave him alone in the store. There is no doubt there are big differences in power cables IF THE SYSTEM IS REVEALING enough. If you have a really colored speaker and a really colored amp, the differences won't be as noticeable. That's been my findings.

In general definitely agree with you; there are exceptions but not that many from what I've seen/heard.

 

[jinjuku]

How many people have spent more on P.C's than it would have cost to either put in a dedicated sub-panel with it's own ground or better yet gone with -60 | 0 | +60 balanced power?

 

[Mike]

How many people have spent more on P.C's than it would have cost to either put in a dedicated sub-panel with it's own ground or better yet gone with -60 | 0 | +60 balanced power?

You do both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jinjuku]

You do both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn't say you don't do both. Pointing out that the root problem for a lot of setups is never addressed and you can try as many bandaids in the form of power cords as you want. It not solving the 'in the wall' problem.

 

[Mike]

Didn't say you don't do both. Pointing out that the root problem for a lot of setups is never addressed and you can try as many bandaids in the form of power cords as you want. It not solving the 'in the wall' problem.

Agreed. Everything starts with good clean power. Separate panel box. Dedicated 20 amp circuits, etc.

 

[BlueFox]

I agree with Skip in regard to cabling. I consider clean power, good cables, and effective vibration control to be the foundation for a good stereo. Get the foundation solid and you can add new gear and expect it to work at, or near, optimum, right from the start.

Let me take a moment and provide an example why I think having a solid foundation of power, cables, and vibration control lets you replace gear and have the new gear work at its best, or close to it, right from the start.

I replaced my Pass XP-20 preamp Wednesday morning with the new XP-22 preamp. This is the upgrade of the 20 with an improved umbilical cord, volume control, and some other circuit tweaks.

The power and cable foundation for the system is three dedicated 20 amp circuits; one for each amp, and one for the source gear and preamp. The source and preamp are connected to a Shunyata Triton v3-Typhoon power conditioner. The preamp is powered via a Shunyata Sigma Analog power cord. The source inputs are Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR, and the output to each amp is a Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR.

The vibration foundation is a Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack that weighs 300 pounds empty, along with Mapleshade Micropoint Brass Footers for the preamp. The rack sits on a ‘wood’ floor over a concrete slab, which sits on the ground.

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

Since the XP-22 has a new, longer umbilical cord, I placed the power supply on the floor, and the preamp on the brass footers. With the XP-20 the preamp sat on top of the power supply, and the power supply sat on the brass footers.

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start. The same applies to the file player and the amps.

 

[UltraFast69]

Let me take a moment and provide an example why I think having a solid foundation of power, cables, and vibration control lets you replace gear and have the new gear work at its best, or close to it, right from the start.

I replaced my Pass XP-20 preamp Wednesday morning with the new XP-22 preamp. This is the upgrade of the 20 with an improved umbilical cord, volume control, and some other circuit tweaks.

The power and cable foundation for the system is three dedicated 20 amp circuits; one for each amp, and one for the source gear and preamp. The source and preamp are connected to a Shunyata Triton v3-Typhoon power conditioner. The preamp is powered via a Shunyata Sigma Analog power cord. The source inputs are Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR, and the output to each amp is a Shunyata Zitron Anaconda XLR.

The vibration foundation is a Mapleshade Samson four shelf maple rack that weighs 300 pounds empty, along with Mapleshade Micropoint Brass Footers for the preamp. The rack sits on a ‘wood’ floor over a concrete slab, which sits on the ground.

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

Since the XP-22 has a new, longer umbilical cord, I placed the power supply on the floor, and the preamp on the brass footers. With the XP-20 the preamp sat on top of the power supply, and the power supply sat on the brass footers.

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start. The same applies to the file player and the amps.

Your setup reads to be in order, done right!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Mikado463]

With this foundation I was able to install the new preamp, and it has been sounding great since I turned it on, and as it gains hours (60 as of now) it sounds better and better.

not surprised, standard audiophile answer .......

Anyway, with this foundation I know I can add any other preamp made (with balanced input/output) and expect it to perform at, or near, its best right from the start.

so if it sounds 'better & better' as you stated above then it's not 'at or near' it's best from the start.......

Just bustin' your stones a wee bit, I get what your saying, it's all common sense, like the home you live in, it all starts with a solid foundation.

 

[BlueFox]

Yes, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that while I have a new piece of gear I don’t have to get a new power cord, or new interconnects, or anything else, in order for it to work at its best. Sure, it has to burnin for some period of time, but that is true of anything.

Happy New Year.

 

[jinjuku]

Sure, it has to burnin for some period of time, but that is true of anything.

Happy New Year.

I'll send you two sets of randomly labeled cables. Two burned in and two virgin. You'll have 30 days to perform sighted, ears only, evaluation with no one else conducting parts of the evaluation unless you want to. I'll post a password protected zip that can be downloaded prior. After the results are posted (which set sounds the best) I'll post the password in forum.

$100 to charity winners choice.

 

[BlueFox]

I'll send you two sets of randomly labeled cables. Two burned in and two virgin. You'll have 30 days to perform sighted, ears only, evaluation with no one else conducting parts of the evaluation unless you want to. I'll post a password protected zip that can be downloaded prior. After the results are posted (which set sounds the best) I'll post the password in forum.

$100 to charity winners choice.

No thank you. I have no interest in that. Perhaps somebody else does. Nice gesture to donate to charity.