Posting Prices Publicly

[Randy Myers]

Point well taken Randy. I think our only point of "minor" disagreement (perhaps) is the reality of potential buyers being unable to determine what the actual MSRP really is. And as you said, this simply should not be the case. Ever. And the easier, the better for all parties concerned. Best. Gordon

Ok Gordon, we are good. I do believe that at times finding the actual price can be unnecessarily difficult. Bottom line is it is time wasted and it is very inconsiderate of the customer.

Also, years ago when I managed a stereo store the manufactures made it clear that they did not want to pit one dealer against another, but more importantly they wanted the customer to go to the dealer to get the scoop on their products. I do not know if this remains the case, but I suspect it is. But this way of thinking completely discounts that many customers do not have dealers that they can easily visit.

 

[Shadowfax]

You made it sound like this is majority of the cases. I’d argue this may be only true for a very small percentage of gears out there.

As I try to join the ranks of those with killer systems, it is the norm for me in my price ranges. I just recently went thru it with speakers and a year ago with an integrated amp.

 

[kzhtoo]

As I try to join the ranks of those with killer systems, it is the norm for me in my price ranges. I just recently went thru it with speakers and a year ago with an integrated amp.

Would you mind to share a few examples?

 

[Shadowfax]

Fyne Audio for starters

 

[2FlyingYorkies]

It's not that the information isn't available "anywhere". It's that the manufacturers have decided to avoid the subject and let their dealers shoulder the burden.

Using Fyne as mentioned above, the prices are available, but only once you figure out that The Sound Organization is the US distributor and do a search on their website. Or if we use my own Focals, there's nothing on the Focal USA website. But eventually you might find one of the few online retailers who lists a price...that turns out to be from before the big price hike earlier this year. Or board darling Magico, where I see one retailer online who shows a price for the S5 mk 2, but again nothing from the manufacturer. When i was building my basement theater earlier this year, i seriously considered using a Magico system. But it took a call from me directly to Magico to find out that the price of their center channel speakers because even my local dealer didn't have that information.

 

[Rob181]

First, it is nonsense to conclude that people knee-jerk search for a price without any prior reading or knowledge of a product.

Its an even bigger nonsense to make this statement. You know this to be factually correct - how. kzhtoo's post demonstrates that there will always be outliers. Just because you believe something to be true does not make it so.

 

[kzhtoo]

Fyne Audio for starters

I found this in less than 2 minutes of googling. Granted it’s not in US dollars but at least now I know the ball park number to give me an idea if I’d like to pursue further.

 

[kzhtoo]

It's not that the information isn't available "anywhere". It's that the manufacturers have decided to avoid the subject and let their dealers shoulder the burden.

Using Fyne as mentioned above, the prices are available, but only once you figure out that The Sound Organization is the US distributor and do a search on their website. Or if we use my own Focals, there's nothing on the Focal USA website. But eventually you might find one of the few online retailers who lists a price...that turns out to be from before the big price hike earlier this year. Or board darling Magico, where I see one retailer online who shows a price for the S5 mk 2, but again nothing from the manufacturer. When i was building my basement theater earlier this year, i seriously considered using a Magico system. But it took a call from me directly to Magico to find out that the price of their center channel speakers because even my local dealer didn't have that information.

A Google search for “Magico center speaker” returns these 2 among first 3 links.

 

[2FlyingYorkies]

A Google search for “Magico center speaker” returns these 2 among first 3 links.

Yes, you found an article that didn’t exist when I was looking at the product in question. And you’ve also demonstrated my point that the problem is not that the information isn’t available. It’s that it doesn’t come from the manufacturer. Why are they so afraid of even discussing the subject and leaving it to the reviewers and bloggers to be a source for fundamental product data?

 

[kzhtoo]

Yes, you found an article that didn’t exist when I was looking at the product in question. And you’ve also demonstrated my point that the problem is not that the information isn’t available. It’s that it doesn’t come from the manufacturer. Why are they so afraid of even discussing the subject and leaving it to the reviewers and bloggers to be a source for fundamental product data?

I guess you were looking for ACC. In that case, before that review quoted above, Magico itself
did a press release with the price and Mike even made a post about it on this very forum.

The google search on “Magico ACC” returns this as the first post.

Saying it’s difficult to find MSRP is one thing, questioning manufacturers of their intent is another. I’m not getting into the latter because each manufacturer can have their own reasoning or strategy and the way they want to run their dealer network.

 

[Randy Myers]

Why all the games, all the variety of information (the price you found was from 2013 for example). It benefits no one, especially the dealers and customers. Again, why all the games.... who does it benefit? Do customers like the experience? Does it improvement the chances of a customer buying their products? My guess is probably not.

Again I go back to my McIntosh example. The Hattor 3-piece pre-amp and the SimAudio phono stages are probably better sounding, however I would have liked to try the McIntosh and probably would have been satisfied (being that I grew up in the shadow of the factory). But because of this pricing policy and secretive BS I did not have to opportunity to. I might still consider trying the pre-amp, but as it stands now I would have to sell the Hattor passive pre-amp (best passive money can buy in my view), the optional Active Tube Stage, the SimAudio 310 phono stage and the SimAudio 110 phono stage (which has not arrived yet) just to try the McIntosh. Not worth the hassles.

 

[kzhtoo]

Why all the games, all the variety of information (the price you found was from 2013 for example). It benefits no one, especially the dealers and customers. Again, why all the games.... who does it benefit? Do customers like the experience? Does it improvement the chances of a customer buying their products? My guess is probably not.

The simple answer from me is I am not sure. Maybe to create opportunity for the dealers to build customer relationships. Hi-end has been this way before I got involved and I just learn to play with its “rules” whether with the dealers or in the used market. One question I thought of though is if a manufacturer displays its prices big and clear on their website, would you be willing to pay MSRP as is? Or would you still expect a nice discount?

Again I go back to my McIntosh example. The Hattor 3-piece pre-amp and the SimAudio phono stages are probably better sounding, however I would have liked to try the McIntosh and probably would have been satisfied (being that I grew up in the shadow of the factory). But because of this pricing policy and secretive BS I did not have to opportunity to. I might still consider trying the pre-amp, but as it stands now I would have to sell the Hattor passive pre-amp (best passive money can buy in my view), the optional Active Tube Stage, the SimAudio 310 phono stage and the SimAudio 110 phono stage (which has not arrived yet) just to try the McIntosh. Not worth the hassles.

I do not know these pieces well. But according to what you said, it does not seem like you get the short end of it. You now own the Hattor which is better than Mc. Look at it this way, if you had bought the Mc, you might never have had a chance to experience/own the Hattor.

 

[2FlyingYorkies]

Saying it’s difficult to find MSRP is one thing, questioning manufacturers of their intent is another. I’m not getting into the latter because each manufacturer can have their own reasoning or strategy and the way they want to run their dealer network.

That’s the entire point of this thread as posted by Mike: questioning the manufacturers intent as to why they make it so hard...

 

[kzhtoo]

That’s the entire point of this thread as posted by Mike: questioning the manufacturers intent as to why they make it so hard...

Well I get that. But many people started complaining about “difficulty finding MSRP” and that isn’t my experience at all. One can complain about the intent but saying I can’t find MSRP is another matter altogether.

 

[thedudeabides]

Its an even bigger nonsense to make this statement. You know this to be factually correct - how. kzhtoo's post demonstrates that there will always be outliers. Just because you believe something to be true does not make it so.

Why all the hostility about a simple thread directed at me and others? People are simply offering "good faith" opinions based on their personal experiences. Sorry but I don't get it and it gives me pause to consider if I want to continue posting on this Forum given the confrontational tone of some of these posts. I'm here to share my experiences and learn from others. That's all. It's very simple. Seems like others have a different agenda and want to insult others versus recognizing we may differ in our views and try to have a civil, respectful discourse to discuss these differences.

Is this typical on this Forum? You rarely see anything like this on WBF. :disbelief:

 

[Rob181]

Why all the hostility about a simple thread directed at me and others?

The comment was not meant to sound hostile & apologies if that is how it is being interpreted. It is nothing more than a "return of serve" that presents an alternate perspective.

 

[SimpleSimonSays]

Well I get that. But many people started complaining about “difficulty finding MSRP” and that isn’t my experience at all. One can complain about the intent but saying I can’t find MSRP is another matter altogether.

My dear mother that I adore is like that. If It isn't her experience at all then It doesn't really exist.

While not racist, she doesn't quite understand the importance of Black Lives Matters because she never suffered from racism. Not her experience at all.

She is white by the way.

I keep pointing that to her. Repeatedly. Not her experience at all still...

Yeah.

I know.

 

[kzhtoo]

My dear mother that I adore is like that. If It isn't her experience at all then It doesn't really exist.

While not racist, she doesn't quite understand the importance of Black Lives Matters because she never suffered from racism. Not her experience at all.

She is white by the way.

I keep pointing that to her. Repeatedly. Not her experience at all still...

Yeah.

I know.

Deleted.

 

[Mike]

Leave any discussion of a political nature out of this discussion or I will have to lock it down.

 

[Shadowfax]

I found this in less than 2 minutes of googling. Granted it’s not in US dollars but at least now I know the ball park number to give me an idea if I’d like to pursue further.

Did you find that on the Fyne Audio Site? No, so end of argument since the thread was about MFGs posting their own pricing, not IF you can do google searches all day to find them when you looked at the MFG site first and it should have been there.

Cheers