Posting Prices Publicly

I think the just of this thread is that for what ever reason many/most manufactures do not publish their suggested retail prices. It is treated like some secret that requires you to visit the dealer to find out. And yes, I believe we can all agree that if you are willing to put in the time and effort you probably could eventually find a price by searching on the Internet. However I believe this practice is completely outdated, especially when many/most of us live in areas where dealers are not available to visit. Therefore the customer and the dealer have to waste time to find/give information that should be readily available and that many of us desire to have during the initial phases of looking at a particular line of gear.

Another aspect of this is where can a certain piece actually be purchased? Use McIntosh as an example. A few of their models are available through online dealers, but many/most of their models are not. To complicate the matter even more there are some online dealers who also have B&M locations that sell the other models but they are not allowed to sell or even discuss these models with you over the phone.

I have already given a real example of how this came into play and I did not purchase a McIntosh pre-amplifier that I probably would have otherwise. Yes, I may have actually ended up with over all better sounding gear but being that I grew up on the south side of Binghamton (where the McIntosh factory is and has been since 1951) I always think Mc first. This stupid antiquated policy cost them this sale for sure, and I assume that I am not alone, so I am sure it has cost more sales than it has gained them. I even called the dealer down Vestal Parkway (the most known McIntosh dealer of all who has the inside track on McIntosh) and they told me that they are not allowed to discuss prices on these products on the phone and further more they are not allowed to sell them to me, even when I told them that I do not have a locate dealer. They literally told me I would have to come in to their location to buy one of these certain models from them. So I have to fly 3000 miles to buy the product.... really? Oh I could drive several hours to find a dealer in LA or SF, or I could drive to Santa Barbara to have a dealer that I dislike, who never has anything in stock and knows next to nothing about the products, order me one. Again the onus falls on me to purchase an expensive product because of these long out dated policies.

This is the crux of the issue and no amount of showing, "see I found the price on the Internet" will address it. It is an antiquated practice that needs to change now. Loosing even one sale because of this 1980's policy is loosing too many, period.
 
Hi Randy,

Thank you for your detailed response and I agree with your perspective on this issue. No problems there. What I find problematic is the overall aggressive tone of the discussion. It reminds me of posting on the Audiogon website. I did that for a brief time and stopped for the very reason that I'm likely to stop posting on this site. IMHO, there seems to be a lack of civility and general respect to others who have a different opinion on a topic, which is very apparent on this thread. It's like kids in a sandbox and every one seems to want to kick sand in the other persons face versus playing nice. Words like "I understand your position but respectfully disagree for the following reasons" is MIA. Maybe it's my old age but I personally find the overall tone of discourse to be unnecessary and inappropriate.

Best,

Gordon

To Mike. IMHO, you should have done a lot more to control the insulting comments made in this thread. Maybe you should shut it down and some people will learn a lesson in conversational etiqueete or rename this forum "Audio Snippers" or "Audio :ninja:" Try being the adult in the room.
 
Shadowfax said:
Did you find that on the Fyne Audio Site? No, so end of argument since the thread was about MFGs posting their own pricing, not IF you can do google searches all day to find them when you looked at the MFG site first and it should have been there.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Whether it is from manufacturer website or online review or press release or show photos, the purpose is get the info you need which is the price.

I’m not against manufacturers posting the prices. In fact, I think it’s a great idea if they do it. The only point I’m trying to make is comments such as “I can’t find MSRP” is impossible in this day and age.
 
thedudeabides said:
Hi Randy,

Thank you for your detailed response and I agree with your perspective on this issue. No problems there. What I find problematic is the overall aggressive tone of the discussion. It reminds me of posting on the Audiogon website. I did that for a brief time and stopped for the very reason that I'm likely to stop posting on this site. IMHO, there seems to be a lack of civility and general respect to others who have a different opinion on a topic, which is very apparent on this thread. It's like kids in a sandbox and every one seems to want to kick sand in the other persons face versus playing nice. Words like "I understand your position but respectfully disagree for the following reasons" is MIA. Maybe it's my old age but I personally find the overall tone of discourse to be unnecessary and inappropriate.

Best,

Gordon
To Mike. IMHO, you should have done a lot more to control the insulting comments made in this thread. Maybe you should shut it down and some people will learn a lesson in conversational etiqueete or rename this forum "Audio Snippers" or "Audio :ninja:"
Click to expand...

You mean like this one that caused me to think your screen name should be thedudedoesn'tabide?

thedudeabides said:
Just do your research. They are available in the individual product reviews. I know the Pulsar Graphene is $9K. I never said that all manufacturer websites post MSRP on their product lines. In fact, they usually don't. And I'm not going to waste my time on you either. Any more hostile comments from anyone?
Click to expand...

If you seriously think AS is a bit rough, you really should try hanging out on the World Boxing Federation forum.
 
Hang on WBF or AS. No need for me mep. The world has become "tribal" in too many ways. Any more hostile comments anyone? Have a good life. :wave:
 
Well,

Can someone explain where is the urgency in a audio purchase that nobody can waste some time searching for the price?
It is clear to me that the question of whether or not the price appears on the websites is a false question. So this can only be explained by the "urgency" most people live and the urgency with which they want to see their whims satisfied.

In summary, what is being done here and that is being done a little everywhere on any subject on social networks, is trying to impose a policy on companies different from the one they determined.

If companies understand that it is not the best for them to include prices, they certainly thought about the subject, the pros and cons and made that decision. As a customer I am perfectly free, when I don't like it, to take another path. As simple as that.
 
here i England we have a distributer Absolute sounds, brings in a shed load of big name's, in hifi, and the head of this is Ricardo F, and he publisher's an online catalogue, every year With all prices, apart for the top 2% mega money items, always an eye watering read,
This non printing by manufactures again does this hobby no favours, probably too embarrassed to print the price, :D as hifi has hit ridiculers levels, still no-one forces you to buy it, but it does seem, you can't buy hifi nowadays without being gouged,

also i tried to get the price on Avalon acoustics top of the rage speaker, think its called the Tesseract, after 30 minutes i gave up, can't afford a pair just was looking into the speaker, anyone :rolleyes: great thread,
happy new year, it's snowing here at the moment NOT what you get in the states, but if we get 2 inch the whole country come's to a stand still,
i put 2 inch for the none metric on the forum, :rolleyes:
 
Spock said:
Well,

Can someone explain where is the urgency in a audio purchase that nobody can waste some time searching for the price?
It is clear to me that the question of whether or not the price appears on the websites is a false question. So this can only be explained by the "urgency" most people live and the urgency with which they want to see their whims satisfied.

In summary, what is being done here and that is being done a little everywhere on any subject on social networks, is trying to impose a policy on companies different from the one they determined.

If companies understand that it is not the best for them to include prices, they certainly thought about the subject, the pros and cons and made that decision. As a customer I am perfectly free, when I don't like it, to take another path. As simple as that.
Click to expand...

For me (and I suspect, for most other people), the issue isn’t one of urgency, it is about annoyance. Sure, one can find the price in a recent online review...
1) ...if the review includes a price (some don’t for some odd reason);
2) ...if a review has been done at all;
3) ...if it is in a language you can read.

No review? Well, one can (probably) find the price in a forum discussion...
1) ...if the discussion is in a language you can read;
2) ...if the price is in your country’s currency OR
3) ...if the currency conversion accurately reflects the price is your country.

No reliable review or forum discussion? Well, you can always call a dealer...
1) ...if the manufacturer has published a dealer or distributor list with phone numbers.

That is quite a few IFs. I wouldn’t mind it much at all if finding the price was an ordeal only every now and then, but in my experience it is as often as not that I have to go through several steps to find the price. And ultimately, how easy it is to find the price is beside the point. How could it possibly benefit anyone to have the customer spend time finding the price (as if that isn’t an absurd notion) when the manufacturer can provide it up front? I find this no less absurd than the manufacturer not publishing the name of a given product. What’s the point?
 
I think it is likely that lack of information leads to a feeling of exclusivity for some brands. Also, some hifi brands have limited production and it is possible that they are already selling all they want to sell. The need for providing information including pricing is not of value to these brands. Much of the discourse here assumes that brands would want consumers to know more. I’m not sure that is always the case.
 
greystoke4 said:
here i England we have a distributer Absolute sounds, brings in a shed load of big name's, in hifi, and the head of this is Ricardo F, and he publisher's an online catalogue, every year With all prices, apart for the top 2% mega money items, always an eye watering read,
This non printing by manufactures again does this hobby no favours, probably too embarrassed to print the price, :D as hifi has hit ridiculers levels, still no-one forces you to buy it, but it does seem, you can't buy hifi nowadays without being gouged,

also i tried to get the price on Avalon acoustics top of the rage speaker, think its called the Tesseract, after 30 minutes i gave up, can't afford a pair just was looking into the speaker, anyone :rolleyes: great thread,
happy new year, it's snowing here at the moment NOT what you get in the states, but if we get 2 inch the whole country come's to a stand still,
i put 2 inch for the none metric on the forum, :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

yes Ricardo was at the UK premiere of the magico A3 i attended , quite a character . some years back i had a bit of aggro when my high end pre went missing from Absolute sounds [ courier lost it] there was such a hullabaloo ricardo had to sort it out , and he did thankfully
 
Randy Myers said:
I think the just of this thread is that for what ever reason many/most manufactures do not publish their suggested retail prices. It is treated like some secret that requires you to visit the dealer to find out. And yes, I believe we can all agree that if you are willing to put in the time and effort you probably could eventually find a price by searching on the Internet. However I believe this practice is completely outdated, especially when many/most of us live in areas where dealers are not available to visit. Therefore the customer and the dealer have to waste time to find/give information that should be readily available and that many of us desire to have during the initial phases of looking at a particular line of gear.

Another aspect of this is where can a certain piece actually be purchased? Use McIntosh as an example. A few of their models are available through online dealers, but many/most of their models are not. To complicate the matter even more there are some online dealers who also have B&M locations that sell the other models but they are not allowed to sell or even discuss these models with you over the phone.

I have already given a real example of how this came into play and I did not purchase a McIntosh pre-amplifier that I probably would have otherwise. Yes, I may have actually ended up with over all better sounding gear but being that I grew up on the south side of Binghamton (where the McIntosh factory is and has been since 1951) I always think Mc first. This stupid antiquated policy cost them this sale for sure, and I assume that I am not alone, so I am sure it has cost more sales than it has gained them. I even called the dealer down Vestal Parkway (the most known McIntosh dealer of all who has the inside track on McIntosh) and they told me that they are not allowed to discuss prices on these products on the phone and further more they are not allowed to sell them to me, even when I told them that I do not have a locate dealer. They literally told me I would have to come in to their location to buy one of these certain models from them. So I have to fly 3000 miles to buy the product.... really? Oh I could drive several hours to find a dealer in LA or SF, or I could drive to Santa Barbara to have a dealer that I dislike, who never has anything in stock and knows next to nothing about the products, order me one. Again the onus falls on me to purchase an expensive product because of these long out dated policies.

This is the crux of the issue and no amount of showing, "see I found the price on the Internet" will address it. It is an antiquated practice that needs to change now.
Click to expand...

Seems your beef is really with McIntosh and its general business practices. You may have your share of fair points, but in the end, the purchase decision is ultimately yours. They lost out on your sale and as you claimed, maybe a few others. However, judging from their long history, these business practices seem to be beneficial to them and/or their dealers in some way.

As for “see I found the price on the internet” posts, they do address “I can’t find MSRP” claims. They just don’t address your complicated relationship with Mc.

Randy Myers said:
Loosing even one sale because of this 1980's policy is loosing too many, period.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that is the case in the niche market that is hi-end audio.
 
Its discussions like this, as well as Mikes personal views and willingness to share them, that make this such a great forum. Mikes advantage here, and why he probably doesn't get his hand slapped for even starting discussions like this is because he MOVES product and the Manufacturers/Distributors have to treat him right. Truly makes Suncoast unique
 
Thanks for the kind words. The reality is that this is an important discussion to have maybe just to gauge public opinion if nothing else. That being said, regardless of what some people may want to see, the manufacturers, at the end of the day, have a different perspective and they need to do what they feel is best. If that means keeping global markets happy by being more discrete with pricing, than so be it.

But I do believe things will continue to evolve with respect to this topic and many others, just as they have within the past 5 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
thedudeabides said:
Hang on WBF or AS. No need for me mep. The world has become "tribal" in too many ways. Any more hostile comments anyone? Have a good life. :wave:
Click to expand...

Ok, bye now.

Honestly this is the most friendly and fair forum I have ever seen. Most people are respectful most of the time (not always :P). I honestly did not see the issue he got his panties all in a wad about. I know he got bent out of shape when I called him out on the "Alternative Facts" comment. That is a phrase that I take personal and do get pissed about (just letting you all know :D).
 
kzhtoo said:
Seems your beef is really with McIntosh and its general business practices.
Click to expand...

McIntosh was only an example. The example pretty much holds true for many companies. I used McIntosh as an example because it was in fact an example that did happen for/to me.
 
MPW said:
I think it is likely that lack of information leads to a feeling of exclusivity for some brands. Also, some hifi brands have limited production and it is possible that they are already selling all they want to sell. The need for providing information including pricing is not of value to these brands. Much of the discourse here assumes that brands would want consumers to know more. I’m not sure that is always the case.
Click to expand...

Every entity that has ever sold something to anyone has always wanted the buyer to know the price. Without exception. The only discrepancy between any two transactions is when and how the seller communicates that. I still haven’t heard from any manufacturer how withholding this information up front benefits anyone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top