Posting Prices Publicly

[Randy Myers]

One example. Goto Reno Hifi and you can find all MSRP prices for any piece of Pass Labs gear. It may not be a "full" price list on one piece of paper (if that's what you mean) but the info is clearly available on line. See the link below. Also, every review that I've ever read on an audio product does provide MSRP info. Are you done waiting now? DUH!

I don't know why you are being so insulting and demeaning. I've merely stated my facts as I understand them and have said nothing to you to justify your negative attitude towards me. You seem to think other wise. No-one else on this forum has reacted to my posts the way you have. Oh well. Go find some else to kick.

I'm done responding to your nonsense and will take your comment regarding my loss of credibility as a compliment. Bye Mr. Myers

Reno Hi-Fi. Goto "in stock / new - demo" on the website home page.

have attitude much...

Wow... one dealer gives you Pass prices (and honestly Pass does not give them to you and does not authorize Reno to either)... that is so nice to share. Thank you so much... did I say all manufactures... of course not... there are some manufactures that offer their prices, even on their own websites, such as SimAudio...

You are the one that said, and I quote, "Alternative Facts"... there is no F'n such thing as alternative facts...

Now check out McIntosh website, how about Audio Research... find any prices... no, and honestly many people on this forum responded the same way to your post, not just me... you just got PO'd because I called you out on your alternative facts statement... have a good new year sir... bye...

 

[Kingrex]

Reading through all these negative complaints gives me a feeling people are "Rushed". No longer really intrested in learnimg about the gear. Getting excited about the gear. They just want to get to the point - How Much!!!!

Let me ask, why do you care the price?. You know nothing about whatever piece of anything is your in a lather over. If you truely were interested. If you had some understanding of what it was. If you were excited about the product because you had researched it some, talked to friends about it, looked on forums, you would have learned the price. But really, the only reason you don't know the price is you really have little interest in the product. You gleaned something from a glossy picture. Its your very first interaction with it. If you heard about Joseph Graphene, maybe some reading about previous models would be entertaining. You know, the ones you can afford. What are peoples experiences. They will also talk about the Graphene. And lo and behold, they will start talking price. Enough so you will have a general perspective the cost. Get the pun!!! You will also know they are pretty low efficiency, so maybe don't work well with your amps. Or were you looking to toss your whole system for an unknown speaker.

I did the same with MBL, Kharma, Raidho. I knew they were expensive. I started researching and reading. I started at the bottom. I figured out the entry model pros and cons. By the time I was up to the mid level, I knew all the prices and what people really felt about them. Everything you want to know is out there if you have the patience to be interested and read.

 

[Spock]

Still, I do wonder if we miss out on potential sales by not being transparent enough - do people think our wares are even more expensive than they actually are, and decide not to even try?

It doesn't matter. If a sale of a high end product does not happen due to the lack of price in the web site, some other sales will happen from other brands, maintaining balance in the market.

 

[CPP]

Reading through all these negative complaints gives me a feeling people are "Rushed". No longer really intrested in learnimg about the gear. Getting excited about the gear. They just want to get to the point - How Much!!!!

Let me ask, why do you care the price?. You know nothing about whatever piece of anything is your in a lather over. If you truely were interested. If you had some understanding of what it was. If you were excited about the product because you had researched it some, talked to friends about it, looked on forums, you would have learned the price. But really, the only reason you don't know the price is you really have little interest in the product. You gleaned something from a glossy picture. Its your very first interaction with it. If you heard about Joseph Graphene, maybe some reading about previous models would be entertaining. You know, the ones you can afford. What are peoples experiences. They will also talk about the Graphene. And lo and behold, they will start talking price. Enough so you will have a general perspective the cost. Get the pun!!! You will also know they are pretty low efficiency, so maybe don't work well with your amps. Or were you looking to toss your whole system for an unknown speaker.

I did the same with MBL, Kharma, Raidho. I knew they were expensive. I started researching and reading. I started at the bottom. I figured out the entry model pros and cons. By the time I was up to the mid level, I knew all the prices and what people really felt about them. Everything you want to know is out there if you have the patience to be interested and read.

Really,

 

[thedudeabides]

Reading through all these negative complaints gives me a feeling people are "Rushed". No longer really intrested in learnimg about the gear. Getting excited about the gear. They just want to get to the point - How Much!!!! Everything you want to know is out there if you have the patience to be interested and read.

Exactly. Maybe that's why people get frustrated. For me, I enjoy the research and reading reviews. Others obviously don't. Rushed, too busy, impatient, who knows. Maybe we've gotten used to having instant information access at our fingertips given the powers of the internet. That simply doesn't exist in most cases for the hi end audio market. Maybe someone can create an "Alexa" app for the industry. Oh well.

 

[sonata]

Exactly. Maybe that's why people get frustrated. For me, I enjoy the research and reading reviews. Others obviously don't.

First, it is nonsense to conclude that people knee-jerk search for a price without any prior reading or knowledge of a product.

It is more of a chicken and egg approach. Usually there is some interest sparked by a forum thread or a discussion. A lot of people want to know the price before they spend (waste?) time doing further research or arranging for an audition.

I, and the others here have certainly read their share of reviews - often for the sole purpose of finding the price because the manufacturer/retailer didn' have this information posted. Further, if a review is a few years old, the price in the review isn't current.

The manufacturer should post (and permit the posting of) the current prices.

That is what the initial post solicited; nothing more.

 

[thedudeabides]

It is not nonsense in the view of certain folks who have posted on this thread. Some have stated they want a manufacturers website to provide the MSRP on their product line. I personally disagree but what do I know.

 

[Kingrex]

It doesn't matter. If a sale of a high end product does not happen due to the lack of price in the web site, some other sales will happen from other brands, maintaining balance in the market.

I agree. I believe the sale happens because a good saleman closes the deal.

 

[CPP]

First, it is nonsense to conclude that people knee-jerk search for a price without any prior reading or knowledge of a product.

It is more of a chicken and egg approach. Usually there is some interest sparked by a forum thread or a discussion. A lot of people want to know the price before they spend (waste?) time doing further research or arranging for an audition.

I, and the others here have certainly read their share of reviews - often for the sole purpose of finding the price because the manufacturer/retailer didn' have this information posted. Further, if a review is a few years old, the price in the review isn't current.

The manufacturer should post (and permit the posting of) the current prices.

That is what the initial post solicited; nothing more.

Agree, most of the time maybe the majority of the time, someone will search for a price based on what someone on a forum or in a review wrote. They get curious, I can buy that.

 

[thedudeabides]

It doesn't matter. If a sale of a high end product does not happen due to the lack of price in the web site, some other sales will happen from other brands, maintaining balance in the market.

I basically stated that same sentiment in one of my previous posts.

 

[Kingrex]

Really,

Yes really. I believe most people are in a frenzy. Now Now Now. Me Me Me. Look at consumer debt. An all time high. Look at online purchases. Our economy is driven by retail consumerism. We don't stop to think about much at all anymore. We see something shiny and punch the "BUY" button and magic, its on our doorstep. And look at the angry responses above. People are complaining they don't have time to read about something not in their purchase price point. Probably the same people writing TAS saying they print to many articles about uber expensive gear they can't afford.

Hey, its just my opinion. I'm not worried the price is not published. By the time I'm curious enough about something, I have a good idea if it's in my price range. Even before I start looking for the price I have a fair idea its going to be a lot of money. It's audio gear!!!!!!!

 

[kzhtoo]

Reading through all these negative complaints gives me a feeling people are "Rushed". No longer really intrested in learnimg about the gear. Getting excited about the gear. They just want to get to the point - How Much!!!!

Let me ask, why do you care the price?. You know nothing about whatever piece of anything is your in a lather over. If you truely were interested. If you had some understanding of what it was. If you were excited about the product because you had researched it some, talked to friends about it, looked on forums, you would have learned the price. But really, the only reason you don't know the price is you really have little interest in the product. You gleaned something from a glossy picture. Its your very first interaction with it. If you heard about Joseph Graphene, maybe some reading about previous models would be entertaining. You know, the ones you can afford. What are peoples experiences. They will also talk about the Graphene. And lo and behold, they will start talking price. Enough so you will have a general perspective the cost. Get the pun!!! You will also know they are pretty low efficiency, so maybe don't work well with your amps. Or were you looking to toss your whole system for an unknown speaker.

I did the same with MBL, Kharma, Raidho. I knew they were expensive. I started researching and reading. I started at the bottom. I figured out the entry model pros and cons. By the time I was up to the mid level, I knew all the prices and what people really felt about them. Everything you want to know is out there if you have the patience to be interested and read.

Well, I for one always get more interested in gears that are in my range, hence price will always be one of the first 1-2 things I look for in a component. I am not too sure being patient and read more is realistic or viable preaching here.

 

[kzhtoo]

I’ve never had any trouble finding MSRP of a shiny box I’m interested in for more than 2-3 minutes online. It could be that I usually look for gears from more established companies. But I can also see why some people might have difficulty with it. If manufacturers want to post their prices big and clear on their website, kudos to them. If not, I’m not bothered too much. Even with prices posted, some people may still like to call their dealer without looking at it because that’s their preferred way of communication.

 

[thedudeabides]

you just got PO'd because I called you out on your alternative facts statement...

Randy,

I don't get PO'd or angry about much of anything these days. Anger is a self destructive emotion which I avoid at all costs.

RE alternative facts. You stated that there is no such thing. Unfortunately, they do exist in politics and other public / private arenas much to my chagrin.

As Patrick Moynihan so wisely stated. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. I miss the good old days.

Best,

Gordon

 

[Kingrex]

Well, I for one always get more interested in gears that are in my range, hence price will always be one of the first 1-2 things I look for in a component. I am too sure being patient and read more is realistic or viable preaching here.

Fair enough. I too spend more time reading about equipment in my price range. But to some degree I find it obvious if its going to be close or not.

 

[kzhtoo]

Fair enough. I too spend more time reading about equipment in my price range. But to some degree I find it obvious if its going to be close or not.

Sorry, there was a typo in my message. Just corrected in my original post. I meant to say:

I am not* too sure being patient and read more is realistic or viable preaching here.

 

[Randy Myers]

Randy,

I don't get PO'd or angry about much of anything these days. Anger is a self destructive emotion which I avoid at all costs.

RE alternative facts. You stated that there is no such thing. Unfortunately, they do exist in politics and other public / private arenas much to my chagrin.

As Patrick Moynihan so wisely stated. You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. I miss the good old days.

Best,

Gordon

That is my point Gordon, in politics or anything else. People are entitled to their own opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts. There is only one set of actual facts, any other claim, especially in politics is lying, Alternative Facts are just plan and simple lying. People seem to have become desensitized to it these days. I for one get very upset about blatant lying... it pisses me off. I am not saying that is what you were doing but it is exactly what I think is going on when I hear that term.

I also do enjoy reading and researching, however when I see something interesting that I feel I might possibly be interested in I would like to know the price range for the item and others offered by the company. These are not always an easy thing to find and it makes me feel that the company is hiding something. I also feel it is not fair to waste the time of a dealer for something that I may or may not be interested in.

Let me give a good example... I own a Hattor pre-amp with Arek's optional Active Tube Stage. I absolutely love it, however growing up in Binghamton I usually like to consider McIntosh's offerings. They have a new pre-amp, the C8 I believe it is. I would have been very interested in it and might have purchased it but when they were introducing it I could not find the price range. Judging from other pieces they offered I assumed it would be much higher. So I ended up getting the Hattor, which I feel it the best pre-amp I have ever owned at this point. It ended up costing a tad more than the new McIntosh (quite a bit more when you also consider the two phono stages that I own that are built into the new Mc). I probably would have bought the Mc but since it was difficult to find the actual price and none of the online dealers can carry it I decided to go the other way. Looking back on it I probably got a better over all piece but McIntosh did in fact loose out on the sale. Having no dealers in my area and online retailors not allowed to carry or talk about it.... well McIntosh missed out. This is a true story and definitely shows how having their prices easily accessible and preferably on their own website would have gained them a sale. I assume I am not unique in this.

 

[thedudeabides]

Point well taken Randy. I think our only point of "minor" disagreement (perhaps) is the reality of potential buyers being unable to determine what the actual MSRP really is. And as you said, this simply should not be the case. Ever. And the easier, the better for all parties concerned. Best. Gordon

 

[Shadowfax]

Another way to look at it is from a smaller budgeted view.

Guy wants to buy new speakers. He has say a $5K limit on his mind.
There are hundreds of great looking pics of speakers all over the net.
He sees one that appeals to him, it's a nice bookshelf speaker.
He goes to the MFG site and looks at specs and hype but cannot find a price.....time wasted
Guy now starts googling and after hopefully 10 minutes, he finds a review that actually has the price. Not all reviews do so again....time wasted
He finds the review with the price and holy crap, it's a $22K speaker so completely out of his range....TIME Wasted that he could have been using to look at speakers at the $5K range.

Repeat this process for then next picture that looks good.....time wasted

Have to call Mike, he is busy selling someone a complete MBL system so has to take time to call back only to find the current pair you are looking at are out of your range, so guys time and Mike's time is wasted.

Break it down into simple steps and they all add up to wasted time that could be used to research what is in your range and you found that info in 20 seconds after going to the MFG site.

 

[kzhtoo]

Another way to look at it is from a smaller budgeted view.

Guy wants to buy new speakers. He has say a $5K limit on his mind.
There are hundreds of great looking pics of speakers all over the net.
He sees one that appeals to him, it's a nice bookshelf speaker.
He goes to the MFG site and looks at specs and hype but cannot find a price.....time wasted
Guy now starts googling and after hopefully 10 minutes, he finds a review that actually has the price. Not all reviews do so again....time wasted
He finds the review with the price and holy crap, it's a $22K speaker so completely out of his range....TIME Wasted that he could have been using to look at speakers at the $5K range.

Repeat this process for then next picture that looks good.....time wasted

Have to call Mike, he is busy selling someone a complete MBL system so has to take time to call back only to find the current pair you are looking at are out of your range, so guys time and Mike's time is wasted.

Break it down into simple steps and they all add up to wasted time that could be used to research what is in your range and you found that info in 20 seconds after going to the MFG site.

You made it sound like this is majority of the cases. I’d argue this may be only true for a very small percentage of gears out there.