Polymer Audio Research MKS speaker review by Soundstage.com...

[cmalak]

I have seen the ads for Polymer Audio Research recently in the hifi mags (maybe last 6-months) but this is a new-to-me brand that seems to have very high quality build standards and does not design to a price point, so even their entry-level speaker I believe starts well into the $20K range. The subject of this review is their mid-line entry - the MKS - which retails for $42K. Here's Doug Schneider's (Soundstage.com) review of the speaker: SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | Polymer Audio Research MKS Loudspeakers

Some pics:

 

[Mike]

My friend Jeff (Mr. VAC) bought these. He takes delivery around March 1st. I will be sure to report. In the meantime, here are his speakers being worked on.




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[cmalak]

Mike...they seem to be in the same vein of Magico and YG in terms of all aluminum/metal enclosures. Precise CNC-machined enclosures. But the difference is Magico and YG make their own drivers but these guys are using off-the shelf (albeit exotic and very expensive Accuton) drivers. They also seemed to be voiced fuller than Magico or YG speakers. It would be interesting to compare your S5s to your buddy's MKSes. Doug Schneider does say that these speakers really need high-powered, high-current amps with high damping factor to control the bass bins on these speakers, so it would be interesting if your buddy's VAC is enough on that front. Doug Schneider used the Ayre VX-5s (175 wpc into 4 and 350wpc into 8 ohms) and those produced uncontrolled, woolly bass. When he switched to Simaudio 870 (300 wpc into 4 and 600 wpc into 8 ohms) the bass tightened up and became cleaner and more articulated.

Let us know what you think.

 

[Mike]

I see them as one step removed from DIY - but time will tell. Certainly the cabinets are not anywhere near DIY. The VACS have good bass control, so we will see.

 

[Elberoth]

But the difference is Magico and YG make their own drivers but these guys are using off-the shelf (albeit exotic and very expensive Accuton) drivers.

Magico and YG do not make their own tweeters. They only manufacture their own midranges and bass drivers.

MKS uses Accuton, but only for HF and MF. Bass drivers are top of the range Scan Speak Illuminator.

 

[cmalak]

Adam...correct on all counts.

 

[Audioseduction]

Mike, what's the latest update on Jeff's Polymer Audio Research MKS speakers? Does he still have a balance issue?

 

[Mike]

George - I haven't been over to hear them this week. He says he moved them around a little (less toe in) and wants me to come and check.

Frankly, from what I've heard so far, I'm not a fan (and I'm biting my tongue). John heard them and he feels the same way I do....maybe stronger.

Let's hope for Jeff's sake, with a tweaked setup and some break in they have improved. I have to laugh because the Polymer owner set them up and Jeff has done nothing but move furniture and move the speakers to get them to sound better. Let's hope he has.

For me, I can think of many many other speakers I would rather own. Many for a lot less. They just aren't my cup of tea at all. YMMV.


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[audio.bill]

This just reaffirms the fact that there is a lot more to high end speaker design than the parts used. The Polymer Audio Research speakers are advertised detailing all of their high quality parts and construction, but according to several users the end results are somewhat lacking compared to the competition. When a speaker is designed by spec even using some very advanced modeling tools, there is no guarantee that its subjective performance will be as compelling as you might expect. It has been said many times that there is a bit of 'magic' involved in the successful design of high performance speakers which goes beyond their specifications. It's still very difficult to correlate a speaker's level of performance from the specs, implying that our hearing is much more advanced than we can currently measure or possibly that we are measuring the wrong things. I have my flame suit standing by...

 

[MDP]

This just reaffirms the fact that there is a lot more to high end speaker design than the parts used. The Polymer Audio Research speakers are advertised detailing all of their high quality parts and construction, but according to several users the end results are somewhat lacking compared to the competition. When a speaker is designed by spec even using some very advanced modeling tools, there is no guarantee that its subjective performance will be as compelling as you might expect. It has been said many times that there is a bit of 'magic' involved in the successful design of high performance speakers which goes beyond their specifications. It's still very difficult to correlate a speaker's level of performance from the specs, implying that our hearing is much more advanced than we can currently measure or possibly that we are measuring the wrong things. I have my flame suit standing by...

Well said Bill !

 

[Mike]

Well said Bill.

I found this quote interesting:

"Polymer Audio Research made the point over and over of using the best parts available in this speaker, and I don't doubt it. But as always, it's always the design that counts foremost. Polymer Audio Research is a relatively new company, and perhaps they haven't learned the best way to design yet."

Source: http://audioinvestigations.blogspot.com/2013/05/polymer-audio-research-speaker.html?m=1


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[Mike]

An update: Jeff clarified with me that his speakers are the MKS-X model which retail for approximately $60,000 - that's Raidho D3 territory. Wow.

Ok, so Jeff has worked very hard moving things about. Furniture out, furniture back, speakers closer together and no toe in. The left/right imbalance still exists. Full credit to Jeff, he has done yeoman work and it has improved a little - on some songs, some sources.

I listened to my material - CD's and vinyl - for almost two hours. I kept notes on my thoughts and at Jeff's insistence, I gave him my honest feedback. He was extremely gracious and said he appreciated my honesty. My respect for Jeff went up a lot. It would have been easy for him to tell me to take a hike, but he didn't. I have to say, I appreciated that. He had always been honest with me (and he was right about my Aida's). It's not easy being totally honest with someone. I value his opinion immensely as well.

Listening notes:

This is now my fourth time listening to the Polymers, and even after break in, my opinion hasn't changed much. I found soundstage width limited to inside the left speaker to inside the right. I found the tweeter to be a joy to listen to, with no sibilance, no brightness and smooth as silk. However, cymbals should be more prominent, they seemed almost muffled on some songs (example: Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac on 45RPM vinyl). As a testament to the good tweeter, the Polymers sound pretty good at low volumes, but not nearly as good as the Raidho D3's - which might be the best I've ever heard at low volumes. Soundstage depth was good, but soundstage height was not. I'm sure the rather small speaker height contributes to this. The bass remains quite muddy and undefined. On some tracks, the bass was hollow sounding (example: Eagles - Hotel California). This was bizarre to experience to say the least. On the bright side, there wasn't any midbass overhang. After two hours, I just find the overall soundstage so small sounding. At this price point, they should fill the room and sound much much bigger. Jeff's previous speakers ($3500) had no problem filling his moderately sized room. I'm most certainly not a speaker designer, but I can't help but think the port on the back (located behind the tweeter) is either in the wrong spot or an additional port near the bottom is needed. My friend and speaker designer John also agrees. He felt that the overall voicing was off....but it was the imaging that really concerned him.

Jeff asked me about value and I gave him my honest number as compared to other speakers I've heard which cost a lot less, and Jeff's previous speakers which cost $3500. I realize Daniel Khesin, founder of Polymer Audio likes to talk about the expensive parts which make up his speakers. That's great...but I only care how they sound. At ~$60,000 retail, expectations are high, very high and to me, the Polymer MKS-X do not live up to the value test.

They aren't my cup of tea. I'm sure there will be some who will be smitten with them - and that's great. They just aren't for me. As always, YMMV.

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[audio.bill]

An update: Jeff clarified with me that his speakers are the MKS-X model which retail for approximately $60,000 - that's Raidho D3 territory. Wow.

... additional text from Mike's quoted post has been deleted for brevity ...

Jeff asked me about value and I gave him my honest number as compared to other speakers I've heard which cost a lot less, and Jeff's previous speakers which cost $3500. I realize Daniel Khesin, founder of Polymer Audio likes to talk about the expensive parts which make up his speakers. That's great...but I only care how they sound. At ~$60,000 retail, expectations are high, very high and to me, the Polymer MKS-X do not live up to the value test.

They aren't my cup of tea. I'm sure there will be some who will be smitten with them - and that's great. They just aren't for me. As always, YMMV.

I didn't know that Daniel Khesin was the founder of Polymer Audio and find that very interesting. He previously founded a company called DK Designs which made some highly touted integrated amps that were manufactured in China and then modified with parts upgrades in the US. They claimed to significantly outperform many much more expensive reference designs from much more well known and established major manufacturers. Later he sold the company and its designs to LSA who now sells the products internet direct at huge discounts from their original prices. It appears that he is continuing to use the same type of marketing hype of his products, just with a different company name now. It must be working for him.

 

[cmalak]

What does Mr. Khesin say about all this. For $60k he needs to be on a plane and in Jeff's house solving this for his client (or at the very least having local dealer on ground figuring it out in consultation with himself on the phone)??? WTF (excuse my French)!

That's horrible on every front. And if this is not solved, Jeff needs to do the audio fora circuit telling everyone not to consider Polymer Res.

Just my 2c but that's not acceptable. It's one thing if everything is working fine and to be disappointed with the sonic flavor of the product because one does not audition the product at home with one's gear, etc...that's the luck of the draw. It's another to have a $60k speakers potentially being the source of the L/R imbalance or if not the source not providing the customer service to figure out where in the chain up stream from the speaker the issue is arising. At $60k you need to be figuring that out for your customer.

Ok ... Rant is over and I hope Jeff has this ultimately solved/figured out.

 

[Mike]

Cyril - you raise a good point. I believe Daniel has plans to come to Jeff's soon. He's only a three hour drive away (no plane ride needed). I'm hopeful he can fix the imbalance issue. John and I both heard it plain as day. We did take measurements @ 1 meter from the middle of the speaker and there was a clear measured difference between the left and right speakers.


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[sharkmouth]

What does Mr. Khesin say about all this. For $60k he needs to be on a plane and in Jeff's house solving this for his client (or at the very least having local dealer on ground figuring it out in consultation with himself on the phone)??? WTF (excuse my French)!

That's horrible on every front. And if this is not solved, Jeff needs to do the audio fora circuit telling everyone not to consider Polymer Res.

Just my 2c but that's not acceptable. It's one thing if everything is working fine and to be disappointed with the sonic flavor of the product because one does not audition the product at home with one's gear, etc...that's the luck of the draw. It's another to have a $60k speakers potentially being the source of the L/R imbalance or if not the source not providing the customer service to figure out where in the chain up stream from the speaker the issue is arising. At $60k you need to be figuring that out for your customer.

Ok ... Rant is over and I hope Jeff has this ultimately solved/figured out.

Cyril, my thoughts exactly. I would be looking to off load these with all avenues considered & copious amounts of help from all involved to rectify the situation.

 

[audio.bill]

Cyril - you raise a good point. I believe Daniel has plans to come to Jeff's soon. He's only a three hour drive away (no plane ride needed). I'm hopeful he can fix the imbalance issue. John and I both heard it plain as day. We did take measurements @ 1 meter from the middle of the speaker and there was a clear measured difference between the left and right speakers.

If the issues fail to be resolved to Jeff's ultimate satisfaction, aren't the Polymer speakers sold direct with a money back guarantee?

 

[Mike]

If the issues fail to be resolved to Jeff's ultimate satisfaction, aren't the Polymer speakers sold direct with a money back guarantee?

I believe so. Not 100% sure. You can be sure I've told Jeff many times "get your f'ing money back!" The challenges began early for Jeff as the speakers were supposed to be delivered March 3rd, then March 30th and ultimately not until this month. Jeff had some egg on his face as he invited people over each time for the big setup of his new speakers. The March 30th miss was a date written in stone and the guy didn't show up. Gave some lame excuse. Jeff was pissed.

The warning signs have been there from the beginning IMO.

To be fair, I think Jeff likes the speakers. He's not that concerned with the imaging due a hearing loss in his one ear. But, to Jeff's credit, he wants them to be dialed in perfectly for others who come and listen.

I'm not sure if Jeff would have got his money back if he hadn't recommended the Polymers to a friend (who bought them site unheard based solely on Jeff's recommendation from his one audition). As a side, this friend is going from the massive sounding SoundLabs to the Polymers. I hope he likes them.

The situation is complicated. I think I've done all I can do to help and give advice as his friend.

I frankly don't care what he owns or buys, I just want him to be happy. If he is, I am.


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[Bobvin]

Sharks caring 'bout fellow sharks—I like that. This really is a great forum, populated by the 'best sharks around.

Long live the Shark tank!

 

[audio.bill]

It sure is much friendlier in this Shark Tank than on the TV show of the same name. Some of those insanely rich investors can be brutal and very rude, but it is entertaining.