Paul's Systems...Before and After.
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #44
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
The Music speakers are my reference speakers and here are some reviews I saw somewhere and probably make you understand better with their design and sounds.
The KLIMT series of speakers from Vienna Acoustics is the very best they know how to build, and almost every part in them has been custom designed for the series, with one major goal in mind…PRECISE IMAGING AND 3-dimensionality of sound staging.
Additionally, this larger model is designed to extend the musical frequency range to, and beyond, the limits of human hearing.
It’s been long recognized that in order to get the most precise imaging and sound stage, the timing of frequencies, as they hit our ear, must be tightly controlled.
Some British speakers set the tweeter back from the front of the speaker so that the dome of the tweeter and the apex of the cone of the woofer are at about the same distance from your ear, to “time” the high and low frequencies. That works.
Vienna rejected this because it only works when you are at one single listening height. If you sit high in your chair, or low, the timing is no longer correct.
Some speakers put the tweeter in the center of the woofer and fire through the woofer magnet assembly, using the throat of the woofer magnet as a horn.
The problem with this is that the highs are delayed from the low frequencies and must be compensated for in the crossover. The good news, though, is that the timing does not change with your listening position…it’s the same at all angles.
Vienna rejected this, too.
Instead, they designed a wonderful tweeter that was very small, placed it in the center of a wide-range midrange/woofer, and positioned the dome on a fixed mounting right in line with the woofer cone.
They went even further in that the larger driver’s cone is FLAT, and specially re-enforced, so now all the frequencies coming out of this compound driver are in exact time with each other…and at all angles, both up/down and left/right.
By making the larger driver FLAT, the wide dispersion of the tweeter is maintained, and no “horn sound” is created.
This main compound driver has a range of 100-20,000Hz, so it covers almost 8-Octaves of the music range, and maintains the precise imaging that small monitor speakers are known for.
Below this is the woofer section provides, via 3 powerful 9-inch drivers, low-distortion bass down to 22Hz.
Subwoofers need to apply to systems with these speakers, at least for music listening!
Near the top of the lower woofer section is a tiny SUPER-Super-tweeter, that extends the response from 20-100,000Hz.
While we can’t directly hear sounds higher than 20,000Hz, (you are lucky to hear even that high), many feel the super-super-tweeters improve the sound through the rest of the audible range.
One possible explanation is that a speaker the “rolls off” at 20,000Hz will have phase errors at frequencies that ARE BELOW 20,000, and that CAN be heard.
By extending the speaker’s response to 100,000Hz, the phase response of the speaker is improved at audible frequencies.
Whether you “buy into” this theory fully or not, the “openness” of the sound of this speaker is about as good as it gets!
In order to get the best of performance from ANY speaker, the rotation and tilt of the speaker should be fine-tuned, and Vienna has address this issue fully.
Addressed and delivered, in fact.
The entire top “head” of the speaker can be rotated and tiled with precise adjustments on the rear of the speakers using precision threaded adjustment controls.
After that, the frequency extremes can also be fine tuned for more “dead” or reverberant rooms with switches on the rear of the speakers.
A lot of ultra-high-end speakers are made by small companies without the resources to manufacture custom parts, and end up with a bit of a “built-in-the-garage” look.
These are the opposite.
The overall attention to detail, materials used, and construction is second-to-none.
The cabinetry is beautiful, and the speakers are built to last.
The Music speakers are my reference speakers and here are some reviews I saw somewhere and probably make you understand better with their design and sounds.
The KLIMT series of speakers from Vienna Acoustics is the very best they know how to build, and almost every part in them has been custom designed for the series, with one major goal in mind…PRECISE IMAGING AND 3-dimensionality of sound staging.
Additionally, this larger model is designed to extend the musical frequency range to, and beyond, the limits of human hearing.
It’s been long recognized that in order to get the most precise imaging and sound stage, the timing of frequencies, as they hit our ear, must be tightly controlled.
Some British speakers set the tweeter back from the front of the speaker so that the dome of the tweeter and the apex of the cone of the woofer are at about the same distance from your ear, to “time” the high and low frequencies. That works.
Vienna rejected this because it only works when you are at one single listening height. If you sit high in your chair, or low, the timing is no longer correct.
Some speakers put the tweeter in the center of the woofer and fire through the woofer magnet assembly, using the throat of the woofer magnet as a horn.
The problem with this is that the highs are delayed from the low frequencies and must be compensated for in the crossover. The good news, though, is that the timing does not change with your listening position…it’s the same at all angles.
Vienna rejected this, too.
Instead, they designed a wonderful tweeter that was very small, placed it in the center of a wide-range midrange/woofer, and positioned the dome on a fixed mounting right in line with the woofer cone.
They went even further in that the larger driver’s cone is FLAT, and specially re-enforced, so now all the frequencies coming out of this compound driver are in exact time with each other…and at all angles, both up/down and left/right.
By making the larger driver FLAT, the wide dispersion of the tweeter is maintained, and no “horn sound” is created.
This main compound driver has a range of 100-20,000Hz, so it covers almost 8-Octaves of the music range, and maintains the precise imaging that small monitor speakers are known for.
Below this is the woofer section provides, via 3 powerful 9-inch drivers, low-distortion bass down to 22Hz.
Subwoofers need to apply to systems with these speakers, at least for music listening!
Near the top of the lower woofer section is a tiny SUPER-Super-tweeter, that extends the response from 20-100,000Hz.
While we can’t directly hear sounds higher than 20,000Hz, (you are lucky to hear even that high), many feel the super-super-tweeters improve the sound through the rest of the audible range.
One possible explanation is that a speaker the “rolls off” at 20,000Hz will have phase errors at frequencies that ARE BELOW 20,000, and that CAN be heard.
By extending the speaker’s response to 100,000Hz, the phase response of the speaker is improved at audible frequencies.
Whether you “buy into” this theory fully or not, the “openness” of the sound of this speaker is about as good as it gets!
In order to get the best of performance from ANY speaker, the rotation and tilt of the speaker should be fine-tuned, and Vienna has address this issue fully.
Addressed and delivered, in fact.
The entire top “head” of the speaker can be rotated and tiled with precise adjustments on the rear of the speakers using precision threaded adjustment controls.
After that, the frequency extremes can also be fine tuned for more “dead” or reverberant rooms with switches on the rear of the speakers.
A lot of ultra-high-end speakers are made by small companies without the resources to manufacture custom parts, and end up with a bit of a “built-in-the-garage” look.
These are the opposite.
The overall attention to detail, materials used, and construction is second-to-none.
The cabinetry is beautiful, and the speakers are built to last.
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #45
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Thanks Allen. good luck with your research on speakers :exciting:
Jerome .... You are the BEST!
Steve . Thanks , How is your SF speakers ?
Thanks Allen. good luck with your research on speakers :exciting:
Paul.....: this looks familiar to me....
Stunning !
Jerome .... You are the BEST!
Jax... Thanks. You helped me a lot
Steve . Thanks , How is your SF speakers ?
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Paul - I like the way you roll buddy! I'm saving my pennies for a pair of Mc 275 mk6's. If they've been the backbone of your system through all the other changes - then I know they're good! Tube amps that sound like, gasp, tube amps? Oh, I'm in!
Paul - I like the way you roll buddy! I'm saving my pennies for a pair of Mc 275 mk6's. If they've been the backbone of your system through all the other changes - then I know they're good! Tube amps that sound like, gasp, tube amps? Oh, I'm in!
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #47
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Mike.... I could easily live with 275's only but I found they are some what lack on Classical music which need a lot of slam and speed otherwise I wouldn't purchased the MC601's. I'm looking forward your impression on 275's with your new speakers. :exciting:
Mike.... I could easily live with 275's only but I found they are some what lack on Classical music which need a lot of slam and speed otherwise I wouldn't purchased the MC601's. I'm looking forward your impression on 275's with your new speakers. :exciting:
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
They are good. I know them pretty well from my local dealer. Heard them a lot with B&W 802 and 805.
They are good. I know them pretty well from my local dealer. Heard them a lot with B&W 802 and 805.
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Hi Paul.
First off, thanks for the fullsome explanation. I have to agree, that EVERY VA speaker is built according to the high standard of fine cabinetry. A pity in a way, because even a slight ding to the woodwork would cause a grown man to burst into tears. Its hard to overlook a slight flaw where the was (near) perfection before. LoL
Yes, I read an article on VA a couple years ago and recall that its run by a brother-sister team and they make their own drivers, including the "spiderman" mid/woofer they are famous for. I guess one can say that the Austrians are as fanatically meticulous as the Swiss, judging by Trenner& Friedl, Brodmann and Ayon.
Finally it seems that the VA people take mechanical measures to do some DRC, what with the time alignments of drivers and the abilty to position elements to correct for room issues. Very nice and the look sweet too. Not cheap though, but fine furniture never is.
Hi Paul.
First off, thanks for the fullsome explanation. I have to agree, that EVERY VA speaker is built according to the high standard of fine cabinetry. A pity in a way, because even a slight ding to the woodwork would cause a grown man to burst into tears. Its hard to overlook a slight flaw where the was (near) perfection before. LoL
Yes, I read an article on VA a couple years ago and recall that its run by a brother-sister team and they make their own drivers, including the "spiderman" mid/woofer they are famous for. I guess one can say that the Austrians are as fanatically meticulous as the Swiss, judging by Trenner& Friedl, Brodmann and Ayon.
Finally it seems that the VA people take mechanical measures to do some DRC, what with the time alignments of drivers and the abilty to position elements to correct for room issues. Very nice and the look sweet too. Not cheap though, but fine furniture never is.
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Norman - do you like them? I just find the new tube stuff sounding too neutral and thin sounding.
Norman - do you like them? I just find the new tube stuff sounding too neutral and thin sounding.
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #52
BIGGEST Surprise in my LIFE!!!!
Since I can not move down the my main speakers I decide to try my Rogers LS3/5A in basement. Well...it's small monitor and I wasn't expect much on bigger room BUT as soon as I hooked up on MC275's ...My jaw just dropped to the floor...and I said WTF !!!! seriously....Wow....this is biggest surprise in my life. this little monitor sounds incredible....beautiful vocal ( they are well known for ) the stage is very wide and even the bottom end is amazing for the size of speakers....Wow...
This speakers are classic and hard to come by in this mint condition. A lot of members in here wouldn't really care much about the this little old speakers but Please do me a favor if you get a chance to listen to them please do so... if not than make it happen !!! This little guy just blew me away.:disbelief::amazing:
Since I can not move down the my main speakers I decide to try my Rogers LS3/5A in basement. Well...it's small monitor and I wasn't expect much on bigger room BUT as soon as I hooked up on MC275's ...My jaw just dropped to the floor...and I said WTF !!!! seriously....Wow....this is biggest surprise in my life. this little monitor sounds incredible....beautiful vocal ( they are well known for ) the stage is very wide and even the bottom end is amazing for the size of speakers....Wow...
This speakers are classic and hard to come by in this mint condition. A lot of members in here wouldn't really care much about the this little old speakers but Please do me a favor if you get a chance to listen to them please do so... if not than make it happen !!! This little guy just blew me away.:disbelief::amazing:
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Very cool Paul! I remember you were on a mission to find a pair. I'm glad your hard work and effort paid off!
Very cool Paul! I remember you were on a mission to find a pair. I'm glad your hard work and effort paid off!
NorthStar
New member
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Those Rogers' are cute; I still don't see no turntable.
{The black felt surrounding the tweeter is a good idea; I do that too with some tweeters of mine.}
* "The Music", at 180 pounds each I knew that it'll come to that. ...You need some serious help and a good plan in order to move them down the stairs.
-> Another great review: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue59/vienna.htm
- An Audiogon add from last summer: http://app.audiogon.com/listings/fu...reserve-2013-07-15-speakers-10012-new-york-ny
_______________
Paul, you take great pictures.
Those Rogers' are cute; I still don't see no turntable.
{The black felt surrounding the tweeter is a good idea; I do that too with some tweeters of mine.}
* "The Music", at 180 pounds each I knew that it'll come to that. ...You need some serious help and a good plan in order to move them down the stairs.
-> Another great review: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue59/vienna.htm
- An Audiogon add from last summer: http://app.audiogon.com/listings/fu...reserve-2013-07-15-speakers-10012-new-york-ny
_______________
Paul, you take great pictures.
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #56
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Bob.....After the experiment with the Rogers. I can't wait till hear the Music in basement. Patience Bob...until I get the decent TT
Thanks very much for compliment on pictures :blush:
Those Rogers' are cute; I still don't see no turntable.
{The black felt surrounding the tweeter is a good idea; I do that too with some tweeters of mine.}
* "The Music", at 180 pounds each I knew that it'll come to that. ...You need some serious help and a good plan in order to move them down the stairs.
Paul, you take great pictures.
Bob.....After the experiment with the Rogers. I can't wait till hear the Music in basement. Patience Bob...until I get the decent TT
Thanks very much for compliment on pictures :blush:
NorthStar
New member
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
I added another great review of "The Music" in my above post, plus an older add (last summer) from Audiogon. ...But the sale never materialized as $12,888 was the target base price. Normally a pair of demos should be around $20,000 US, in excellent condition.
The TT is no rush Paul because I know that you already have some fantastic hi-res digital music recordings:
from FIM - UltraHD - 32-Bit Mastering! And with a CD/SACD player (MCD500) you also certainly have few SACDs.
I added another great review of "The Music" in my above post, plus an older add (last summer) from Audiogon. ...But the sale never materialized as $12,888 was the target base price. Normally a pair of demos should be around $20,000 US, in excellent condition.
The TT is no rush Paul because I know that you already have some fantastic hi-res digital music recordings:
from FIM - UltraHD - 32-Bit Mastering! And with a CD/SACD player (MCD500) you also certainly have few SACDs.
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #58
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
One of my friend contacted the seller and that was something wasn't right... Anyway if it's used and demo goes around $20 K yes. However the New retail price just went up to $30 K this year..sigh
For me as long as I have my music on I am happy regardless of method.
One of my friend contacted the seller and that was something wasn't right... Anyway if it's used and demo goes around $20 K yes. However the New retail price just went up to $30 K this year..sigh
For me as long as I have my music on I am happy regardless of method.
Paul
Senior Member
- Thread Author
- #59
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Now I have one more mission to go and It will be my final journey for audio life.
1. Quad ESL57 or DeVore speakers.
2. EL34 based int amp. Haven't decide the brand and depends on what speakers I'm getting but I will be happy with either one.
3. Garrard 401 or 301
Now I have one more mission to go and It will be my final journey for audio life.
1. Quad ESL57 or DeVore speakers.
2. EL34 based int amp. Haven't decide the brand and depends on what speakers I'm getting but I will be happy with either one.
3. Garrard 401 or 301
NorthStar
New member
Re: BlueMcIntosh's Systems...Before and After.
Yes, Stereo Exchange from New York. And yes, at their own website the demos (The Music) are advertised at $20,000 US (MSRP: $30,000 US).
One of my friend contacted the seller and that was something wasn't right... Anyway if it's used and demo goes around $20 K yes. However the New retail price just went up to $30 K this year..sigh
For me as long as I have my music on I am happy regardless of method.
Yes, Stereo Exchange from New York. And yes, at their own website the demos (The Music) are advertised at $20,000 US (MSRP: $30,000 US).