Nord One Up Ncore NC500 amps, Class D ready for prime time .....

I do not have experience with previous generations of McIntosh dacs but I love the dac in the C52. It just works and sound great. I have my modified Sonos and MacMini hooked up to it. It's quiet, has great vocals, tremendous air and 3D. If I did not know better, I never would have guessed McIntosh was on the label. That is not a knock but I know others had issues with previous internal McIntosh dacs. Mine is rock solid. I personally could live with it as my only dac.

The Lumin is awesome. The GG is still a little bit better in the grand scheme of things but, I just love the on the fly PCM and DSD ability of the Lumin to switch back and forth. I can up and down sample. I will receive an MQA update when Lumin releases it and I absolutely LOVE the AirPlay feature of the Lumin. The app is superb and the sound is absolutely wonderful.

Mivera Audio said:
Have you tried out the DAC section on the McIntosh? If so how does it compare to the Lumin?
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joeinid said:
I do not have experience with previous generations of McIntosh dacs but I love the dac in the C52. It just works and sound great. I have my modified Sonos and MacMini hooked up to it.

The Lumin is awesome. The GG is still a little bit better in the grand scheme of things but, I just love the on the fly PCM and DSD ability of the Lumin to switch back and forth. I can up and down sample. I will receive an MQA update when Lumin releases it and I absolutely LOVE the AirPlay feature of the Lumin. The app is superb and the sound is absolutely wonderful.
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Excellent! You sure have a lot to choose from in your system :) I didn't even realize that the C52 existed. It's a direct competitor (price wise) to the Phison PD2 I'm selling. I would love to compare them one day. Another new DAC/Pre I'm looking forward to comparing is the Mark Levinson No526. Looks like they did a good job on it with the discrete gain stages. But it's quite a bit more expensive at $15K.

Anyways I seen you have a C52 thread already, so I won't take this one any further into OT :)

http://www.audioshark.org/mcintosh-...-preamplifier-review-new-record-day-9435.html
 
To put a final point on this, all your advice has been spot on and I truly appreciate it.

I know those who have your PD 2 and absolutely LOVE it. If I did not have other gear coming, I would have jumped on it. It will have to wait for now. I have high hopes for your amp coming out too. I have to believe from past performance, it should be wonderful.

I want people to know the McIntosh gear is amazing and McIntosh has and will continue to have great gear. I love it.



Mivera Audio said:
Excellent! You sure have a lot to choose from in your system :) I didn't even realize that the C52 existed. It's a direct competitor (price wise) to the Phison PD2 I'm selling. I would love to compare them one day. Another new DAC/Pre I'm looking forward to comparing is the Mark Levinson No526. Looks like they did a good job on it with the discrete gain stages. But it's quite a bit more expensive at $15K.

Anyways I seen you have a C52 thread already, so I won't take this one any further into OT :)

http://www.audioshark.org/mcintosh-...-preamplifier-review-new-record-day-9435.html
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joeinid said:
To put a final point on this, all your advice has been spot on and I truly appreciate it.

I know those who have your PD 2 and absolutely LOVE it. If I did not have other gear coming, I would have jumped on it. It will have to wait for now. I have high hopes for your amp coming out too. I have to believe from past performance, it should be wonderful.



I want people to know the McIntosh gear is amazing and McIntosh has and will continue to have great gear. I love it.
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I'm glad you're happy with it! I've drooled over Mac gear every since I was 6-7 years old. :)

Anyways when I get some inventory in stock of the PD2's, maybe I can send you one to try out. I would love to get more unbiased feedback on it since it's brand new to the market. I can also send along some different input boards for the Nord's so you can drive them direct by the PD2. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the combo that way :)
 
Thank you Mike. I appreciate the opportunity.

I am a little squeamish "working" on my amps. I may need some advice as the time nears.
 
joeinid said:
Thank you Mike. I appreciate the opportunity.

I am a little squeamish "working" on my amps. I may need some advice as the time nears.
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No problem. Ha ha, it's nothing to it really. They are just little modular board's that simply plug in. Very easy 5 minute job to swap them. The amps are designed this way, no soldering or anything like that.

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Joe

My Aqua DAC is built that way as are most of the Schitt models. They would just as soon you do the upgrades in the field. Allows for less support staff.
 
Mike

Do you have any listening experience with the Nuforce/Nuprime variation of Class D and if so what do you think about their approach and sound. They use toroidal style transformers in most of their designs which is different from the Hypex method.
 
Jack said:
Mike

Do you have any listening experience with the Nuforce/Nuprime variation of Class D and if so what do you think about their approach and sound. They use toroidal style transformers in most of their designs which is different from the Hypex method.
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Hi Jack,

I have only heard the Nuprime IDA-16 integrated amp. It's not bad for the money, but nowhere in the league of the Hypex Ncore stuff. IMO you won't get better class D than the Hypex Ncore. But how they sound all depends on the input buffer used. Many people don't like the dead pan neutral sound of the input buffers on the NC-400 and Mola Mola Kaluga. This is why I came up with the concept Nord uses of swapping the input buffer opamps to "tune" the sound to your personal tastes, so you can achieve the exact "synergy" you're looking for in your system. Think of it just like tube rolling. You can literally make the NC-500 amp sound like anything you want with the right input buffer opamp. Joe described to me the sound he likes, so I recommended a smoother, more tube like discrete opamp for the input buffer. As you can see, it worked out well for him. However if one wanted something more analytical sounding, there's several options out there as well. A guy on Diyaudio has tried out a dozen or so opamps with it and has shared his subjective impressions. It's this guy here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/members/3lviz.html

If you scroll through his post history you will find them scattered about. Keep in mind they are revising the input board to make it lower noise, and play nice with more opamps.
 
Mike

I have not heard the amp in the IDA-16, but from what I have been told by owners and a dealer it is maybe the worst sounding of the amp sections they have put on the market. Way to far to the "lean" side of neutral. The engineers at Nuprime apparently have found a way to "tune" the sound of their amps also by using the buffer. I have the IDA-8 and the ST-10 and the amp modules are both "tuned" differently. The 8 is more to the "tube" direction and the ST-10 is warm but more to neutral side, according to the CEO by adjusting the input buffer. I like the warmer side of dead neutral so the Nord with the Sparkos should be to my liking. I am going to have another members pair in house to listen to later in the week so time will tell. Which side of the fence do the other op amps Colin is testing fall on?
 
Jack said:
Mike

I have not heard the amp in the IDA-16, but from what I have been told by owners and a dealer it is maybe the worst sounding of the amp sections they have put on the market. Way to far to the "lean" side of neutral. The engineers at Nuprime apparently have found a way to "tune" the sound of their amps also by using the buffer. I have the IDA-8 and the ST-10 and the amp modules are both "tuned" differently. The 8 is more to the "tube" direction and the ST-10 is warm but more to neutral side, according to the CEO by adjusting the input buffer. I like the warmer side of dead neutral so the Nord with the Sparkos should be to my liking. I am going to have another members pair in house to listen to later in the week so time will tell. Which side of the fence do the other op amps Colin is testing fall on?
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I would have a look at the link I shared. That guy has done far more testing than Colin has done. But like I mentioned, his new input board will be better. As far as I'm concerned, nothing can touch the Sonic Imagery 994 discrete opamp. It has the perfect balance of smoothness and detail. And it doesn't do it by adding distortion either. The sound stage is quite a bit deeper, and overall resolution better. The Sparko does sound quite dull in comparison. The best part is it does it without adding any listening fatigue what so ever. But the noise floor is high with the current Nord buffer board. If you read the Diyaudio thread, you will see that Richard (nerdman) from Sonic Imagery chimed in with his recommended mods to the input board to kill the noise floor to better than -120dB. I have a similar implementation here I have tried with the 994, and it's the best I've heard next to driving direct by the discrete modular class A gain stages of the Phison PD2.

Here's the Nord input board with the 994:

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nc42acc said:
These amps from Acoustic Imagery might be the ticket.

http://www.acousticimagery.audio/#!atsah-500-mono/he4q3
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They are the same thing as the cheapest Nord mono block version with standard Hypex LM 4562 based input buffer board. Main difference is Nord uses a better case, binding posts, power switch etc and is cheaper.

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!product-page/onbar/41e94472-3fe8-c2af-cfe9-dd028a91a26c

But I don't recommend that board unless you're after mediocre sound, without the flexibility to tune to your tastes.

If anything, wait for this guy to build his version. He decided to copy my idea as well and has made a much nicer case machined out of a solid block of aluminum. We will see how good he builds the buffer board. Shouldn't be hard as Richard already shared the best circuit in public.

http://www.atmstore.es/clase-d-modelo-epm2/

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/281361-hypex-ncore-nc500-build-41.html
 
Great information here guys, thanks for sharing!

After reading here, I'm very interested in the same amps that Joe has procured as the price is attractive if the performance is as mentioned. Super cool.

But, I'm a little confused on what/how to purchase. Joe, did you buy the Sparkos Labs SS3602 Dual Op Amp x 2 on top of whatever was supplied with the units or were the Sparkso the standard? (or..did you purchase the nord One UP NC500 MB instead?)

Mike, you mention a higher noise floor with the current Nord Buffer board....are you referring to the ones that come stock or the Sparkos like Joe purchased?

I too like a little warmer than dead neutral sonic signature in general so am leaning toward the Sparkos. Any other suggestions for Op Amp options?

Thanks.
 
MikeCh said:
Great information here guys, thanks for sharing!

After reading here, I'm very interested in the same amps that Joe has procured as the price is attractive if the performance is as mentioned. Super cool.

But, I'm a little confused on what/how to purchase. Joe, did you buy the Sparkos Labs SS3602 Dual Op Amp x 2 on top of whatever was supplied with the units or were the Sparkso the standard? Mike, you mention a higher noise floor with the current Nord Buffer board....are you referring to ones that come stock or the Sparkos like Joe purchased?

I too like a little warmer than dead neutral sonic signature in general so am leaning toward the Sparkos. Any other suggestions for Op Amp options?

Thanks.
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Hi Mike,

Joe ordered the amps with the Sparko opamps pre-installed. It's an option with the Nord amps. Yes Joe has the old board. The noise is very low with the Sparko compared to normal class A/AB amp standards, but nowhere near as close as the -135dB noise floor of the NC-500's themselves. If you read the Diyaudio thread, you will see that nerdman (Richard) from Sonic imagery labs has publicly provided the circuit design for a much lower noise input board that plays nice with a wider variety of opamps such as his own 994. Since I already built a board using that circuit long before Colin from Nord even knew the NC 500's existed, I can confirm that it's a superior circuit. Colin from Nord has confirmed that he's tried the new circuit and it's better than his old one. So he's making a "revision C" board based on that circuit. However Hypex is backordered on the SMPS1200A700 power supplies until late May or so, so I'm not sure Colin can sell you an amp right now. Might have to wait till May. But good news is he will have his new board available by then.
 
Mike

What are the actual differences between the atm amps and the Nord Up amps other than the better casework. They offer the same OP Amp choices.
 
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