Niagara 7000 vs Denali 6000T - my experience

Mike said:
One big difference as I see it, is that the AudioQuest has a 90amp power reserve for dynamic spikes. I don't see any power current reservoir on the Denali.

Also, from speaking with Denali users, many are plugging the amps into the wall, and the rest of the gear into the Denali, therefore negating the principle of common/star grounding.

I would love to compare the AQ1000 to one of the Denali's. That would be a level playing field since the 1000 doesn't have the 90am power reserve bank.

Thoughts?


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Interesting conversations you're having Mike! I'm sure you have had many more conversations than I regarding these units. I can say of the 4 or 5 people I know using the Denali I've spoken with not one has indicated they would consider plugging the amps into the wall - first I've heard this - especially since it comes with a 20 amp isolated high current duplex. But again, you speak with many more people than I do so appreciate your information.


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La Dolce Vita said:
I agree with Jock. Again, different people will prefer different gear. There is not one that outperforms all others necessarily. This said, while a nice feature to have, at least in a good number of cases the Audioquest 90 amp power reserve spec may indeed be redundant. It's only for milliseconds. Good power amps have these integrated into their power supplies as well. For me, it all comes back to the sound...


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Absolutely. I would love to compare the Denali to the AQ. I wouldn't be surprised if one sounded better in one system and the other sounded better in another. It's all about the system. Both seem to deliver great results. Clean power is so important. The thing to do is to compare both in your system since there are two different approaches. Did you do that? Then you'll know for sure.
 
Mike said:
Absolutely. I would love to compare the Denali to the AQ. I wouldn't be surprised if one sounded better in one system and the other sounded better in another. It's all about the system. Both seem to deliver great results. Clean power is so important. The thing to do is to compare both in your system since there are two different approaches. Did you do that? Then you'll know for sure.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. In order to compare both in one's system one would need a relationship with a dealer (like Justin has with Goodwin's) who is able to offer in home demo's. Many today do I think but not all. In my case and personal experience, I own power conditioning and/or distribution product manufactured by Ansuz, Audience, CablePro, Shunyata, etc.


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You never had the 7000 in your system? So...you don't know. It might have been better. And 90 amp available current is never a bad thing. If you're using a device without a power reserve, and you begin to add up the amp draw from each device plugged into the system, you are quickly choking the system with only 12 amps available (15 amp circuit) or 15 amps available (20 amp circuit). That's why a 90 amp buffer is so important in most systems.

I would say this, if the total load of the system is under 12/15 amps, rock on! If you're using Class A amps which store power, rock on. But if you're exceeding 12/15 amps or you're using Class A/B amps which draw the power from the power source as needed, such as for dynamic peeks, then a 90 amp reserve is crucial.

In your case Andy, with your Class A amps, I think you made a good choice since a 90 amp reserve wouldn't have provided any additional benefit. So save the difference between the Denali and AQ7000 and rock on.
 
Mike said:
You never had the 7000 in your system? So...you don't know. It might have been better. And 90 amp available current is never a bad thing. If you're using a device without a power reserve, and you begin to add up the amp draw from each device plugged into the system, you are quickly choking the system with only 12 amps available (15 amp circuit) or 15 amps available (20 amp circuit). That's why a 90 amp buffer is so important in most systems.

I would say this, if the total load of the system is under 12/15 amps, rock on! If you're using Class A amps which store power, rock on. But if you're exceeding 12/15 amps or you're using Class A/B amps which draw the power from the power source as needed, such as for dynamic peeks, then a 90 amp reserve is crucial.

In your case Andy, with your Class A amps, I think you made a good choice since a 90 amp reserve wouldn't have provided any additional benefit. So save the difference between the Denali and AQ7000 and rock on.
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True! As you'll appreciate it's a process. I will... just takes time and money is all. Thanks for the info Mike. By the way, in light of your moving to the Audioquest 7000, how/where are you utilizing your famed APC units?


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La Dolce Vita said:
True! As you'll appreciate it's a process. I will... just takes time and money is all. Thanks for the info Mike. By the way, in light of your moving to the Audioquest 7000, how/where are you utilizing your famed APC units?


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The APC's are on static display. [emoji6]. The 7000 in my system was a game changer. But I still would love to compare it to the Denali. If you've read everything I've done with respect to AC, I'm after absolute power!
 
Mike said:
The APC's are on static display. [emoji6]. The 7000 in my system was a game changer. But I still would love to compare it to the Denali. If you've read everything I've done with respect to AC, I'm after absolute power!
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Got it! No doubt it's a critically important ingredient in the recipe for great sound...


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Mike said:
You never had the 7000 in your system? So...you don't know. It might have been better. And 90 amp available current is never a bad thing. If you're using a device without a power reserve, and you begin to add up the amp draw from each device plugged into the system, you are quickly choking the system with only 12 amps available (15 amp circuit) or 15 amps available (20 amp circuit). That's why a 90 amp buffer is so important in most systems.

I would say this, if the total load of the system is under 12/15 amps, rock on! If you're using Class A amps which store power, rock on. But if you're exceeding 12/15 amps or you're using Class A/B amps which draw the power from the power source as needed, such as for dynamic peeks, then a 90 amp reserve is crucial.

In your case Andy, with your Class A amps, I think you made a good choice since a 90 amp reserve wouldn't have provided any additional benefit. So save the difference between the Denali and AQ7000 and rock on.
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Mike, since you have had the APC's, you have had the ability to check the current draw (watts) of a system connected to it. What is the highest that you have noted? I ask because of your quote above. In my system (SET listed below) I only draw 326 watts in full tilt. (approx 3 amps). And I have a total of 16 tubes glowing.
10 amps or more of current draw would, as a byproduct, create a great amount of heat.
As per the 90 amps available, as has been previously stated, this must be by storage from a capacitor. The power supplies in our equipment usually have very large capacitor banks to handle dynamic peaks.
Having not had the opportunity to hear either unit, my comments are generic in nature.
 
jadedavid said:
Mike, since you have had the APC's, you have had the ability to check the current draw (watts) of a system connected to it. What is the highest that you have noted? I ask because of your quote above. In my system (SET listed below) I only draw 326 watts in full tilt. (approx 3 amps). And I have a total of 16 tubes glowing.
10 amps or more of current draw would, as a byproduct, create a great amount of heat.
As per the 90 amps available, as has been previously stated, this must be by storage from a capacitor. The power supplies in our equipment usually have very large capacitor banks to handle dynamic peaks.
Having not had the opportunity to hear either unit, my comments are generic in nature.
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It all depends on what gear I'm circling in and out. My SET wouldn't draw hardly anything. Big Bryston, Soulution, Mc, Pass X series, etc. - different story. The one thing I did find was that the Vitus sounded best going direct into the wall with the APC. But when I got the AQ 7000, it was a game changer. It went up a whole 'nother level plugged into the AQ 7000. In fact, it was the Vitus SS-103 with the SL-102 mk2 and the Lumin S1 which made me buy the 7000 in the first place after my rep brought it down for me to demo. I couldn't believe the A:B comparison.
 
I think that the newest products from the various manufacturers are getting much better with the power conditioners. My experience is much like Mikes. When I have tried other conditioners be it Shunyata, Ansuz, Accuphase, AG, Audience etc., I always had found that my amps were better going directly into the wall.

When I tried the Denali 2000t (2 outlets), I found that it was better going through the Denali than straight into the wall.
 
the professor said:
I think that the newest products from the various manufacturers are getting much better with the power conditioners. My experience is much like Mikes. When I have tried other conditioners be it Shunyata, Ansuz, Accuphase, AG, Audience etc., I always had found that my amps were better going directly into the wall.

When I tried the Denali 2000t (2 outlets), I found that it was better going through the Denali than straight into the wall.
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Professor,

That's been my experience as well. My amps sound better plugged into the Denali 6000 than directly into the wall.


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After spending 2 hours on the phone with Grant today, I am thoroughly convinced the passive approach to current will work better in my highly sensitive system and I look forward to trying a 6000 and pair of 2000's with Sigma PC's in my system.


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Hi Justin,

When you did your home audition of the Niagara 7000, did you plug all your components including the amplifier into the power conditioner? In the Stereophile review, they didn't initially plug in the Dartzeel preamp and it compromised the overall sound quality.

Also, did you plug your amp into the Denali 6000T?

Thanks,
Ken
 
When i had Niagara 7000, I had everything plugged in. The only thing I played around with was where my VAC preamp went (high current port or not).

With the Denali, I have played around a little with where the amp goes. I have had it into wall and not into wall. Reason I've played around a little is that I was able to come to a determination early on that I prefer Denali to 7000 - really regardless of whether amp plugged into Denali or wall (initially I had everything in Denali to make it apples to apples). I haven't had hours and hours of playing with different configurations, but I believe at this point that sound is best with amp in Denali, and DAC and preamp in the top 2 lower current spots. I can't say I'm sure yet. Just haven't had the time to play around much. Hmmm... And now I am listening to Paul Simon's Graceland with amp plugged into wall and I will say it sounds awfully good to me with the amp into wall and everything else in Denali though. I might prefer the little extra "push" I am getting with amp into wall. I need time to compare.

To answer an earlier question, I had all of my own Kubala cabling for the 7000 demo. During the initial comparison with 7000, all the cabling was the same. Honestly, it didn't take me long to decide I liked the Denali more. For my setup and my ears, it was a fairly easy decision once I spent about 15 minutes enjoying it. The 2 power conditioners created two very different sounds. You wouldn't confuse them.

After making decision that I preferred Denali, I moved over to all new cabling for demo... Argento Organic. Sounds great.

Anyways, that's been my experience. Once I own Denali i will have plenty of time to play around with it, but for now I am just enjoying the music for the week! I will say that the music pouring out over past week (for a few reasons) is the best I have heard in my setup. I am quite Denali is playing a big part in that.
 
Justin said:
When i had Niagara 7000, I had everything plugged in. The only thing I played around with was where my VAC preamp went (high current port or not).

With the Denali, I have played around a little with where the amp goes. I have had it into wall and not into wall. Reason I've played around a little is that I was able to come to a determination early on that I prefer Denali to 7000 - really regardless of whether amp plugged into Denali or wall (initially I had everything in Denali to make it apples to apples). I haven't had hours and hours of playing with different configurations, but I believe at this point that sound is best with amp in Denali, and DAC and preamp in the top 2 lower current spots. I can't say I'm sure yet. Just haven't had the time to play around much. Hmmm... And now I am listening to Paul Simon's Graceland with amp plugged into wall and I will say it sounds awfully good to me with the amp into wall and everything else in Denali though. I might prefer the little extra "push" I am getting with amp into wall. I need time to compare.

To answer an earlier question, I had all of my own Kubala cabling for the 7000 demo. During the initial comparison with 7000, all the cabling was the same. Honestly, it didn't take me long to decide I liked the Denali more. For my setup and my ears, it was a fairly easy decision once I spent about 15 minutes enjoying it. The 2 power conditioners created two very different sounds. You wouldn't confuse them.

After making decision that I preferred Denali, I moved over to all new cabling for demo... Argento Organic. Sounds great.

Anyways, that's been my experience. Once I own Denali i will have plenty of time to play around with it, but for now I am just enjoying the music for the week! I will say that the music pouring out over past week (for a few reasons) is the best I have heard in my setup. I am quite Denali is playing a big part in that.
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Wow Justin!..congrats on finding a sound that works so well for you...

You've been really clear that it took very little time for you to determine you prefer the Denali to the 7000. Others who have tried both like The Professor have chosen the Denali. May I ask wherein rest the differences between the two units in your opinion? That is in what you hear? (Not technical specs) They must not be close and be quite different in order for you to decide your preference so early as you mentioned. Heck, despite all the praise and love he's shown for the 7000, even Mike commented here yesterday he feels his highly sensitive equipment will pair very well with the Denali units he has on order. I predict it won't be long before we read Shunyata is amongst the other brands he carries in his signature! As you have heard both I would love to hear more in terms of what each of these units does to the sound. Any further insight is appreciated...


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La Dolce Vita said:
Wow Justin!..congrats on finding a sound that works so well for you...

You've been really clear that it took very little time for you to determine you prefer the Denali to the 7000. Others who have tried both like The Professor have chosen the Denali. May I ask wherein rest the differences between the two units in your opinion? That is in what you hear? (Not technical specs) They must not be close and be quite different in order for you to decide your preference so early as you mentioned. Heck, despite all the praise and love he's shown for the 7000, even Mike commented here yesterday he feels his highly sensitive equipment will pair very well with the Denali units he has on order. I predict it won't be long before we read Shunyata is amongst the other brands he carries in his signature! As you have heard both I would love to hear more in terms of what each of these units does to the sound. Any further insight is appreciated...


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Andy - for me, the Denali immediately presented more space, more detail (but not in a cold way), lower noise floor, more natural compared to 7000. Both quieter and yet more alive. Totally neutral. I never had a feeling that Denali was imparting a particular flavor to the sound... just that I was hearing any given track better, fuller, clearer. I can't say the same for the effect that the 7000 had in my space.

Now, keep in mind that I really liked 7000 while had it for demo. So I am neither trying to trash the 7000 nor in any way say the Denali is "better". What I will say is that in my room, with my equipment, in a direct A to B, the Denali was better to my ears. And I think an overwhelming percentage of unbiased listeners would feel the same way if they heard the same thing I did. Doesn't mean it's a better product, but for my room, with my existing circumstances, it was better. More realistic. Less a sense of anything altering a sound - more just a very clear sense that I was hearing more of the real thing. Lastly, I do think it is worth noting that this dealer sells the more expensive 7000 and so there is zero bias towards pushing me towards a more expensive product that he can sell. But their reaction was identical to mine. Clear as day for my room.
 
I have not had the pleasure of trying out the Niagara 7000 in my system. I have a great deal of respect for the designer and manufacturer. I'm am less familiar with it so I make no comment about its performance.

I have had the Shunyata Denali 6000/T (tower) in my system for about three weeks now.

So what is it exactly that the Denali is doing?

If you look on the front of the Denali brochure it states "listen to the sound of silence". It is a component that in my view is all about noise reduction.

Our musical enjoyment is reduced by electrical line noise contamination. This can be either from Differential or Common Mode line noise. Differential noise is created by our audio components that feedback pollution onto the mains. Common mode noise is introduced by RFI, EMI, amplitude modulation, wireless communications and other sources.

I believe that the Dinali takes a more passive approach into reducing many of these forms of noise.

I think that the first four outlets reduce many forms of these types of noise by more than 60 dB in the frequencies that are easiest for us to hear.

60 dB is huge!

Other power conditioners that I am familiar with only reduce this noise by only 10 to 20 dB.

The result is a much lower noise floor. My equipment has a much easier time in resolving individual instruments and voices. I don't usually listen at higher volumes. I want to save what hearing I have left. I normally listen to music in the 75 dB range with 80 dB peaks. On those occasions that I listen to larger scale music such as orchestral selections with natural wide dynamic swings, my trusty decibel meter may peak at 95 dB's now.

In addition to hearing many of the things described by others on this thread with the Denali, I have much less auditory distress when the music crescendos towards double or triple fortissimos.

The Dinali is leading to longer intervals of listing. There is "space between the notes". Digital hash is removed. The noise floor in my system is as low as I have ever heard.

I am amazed at how well it works. It is easily the best ancillary component I have added to my system this year. I may be buying a second one over time.
 
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Thanks everyone for sharing information and experiences. I have a Triton. I just couldn't find the exact answer to the question "What is the difference between Triton and Denali?" Is Denali a smaller Triton or is it something different all together?


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