New Riviera Reference Phono stage announced

Mikado463 said:
Good Lord.......:rolleyes:

70k for ANY phono -pre, you gotta be nuts !!!!!!!!!!!
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Thank you, that wasn't so hard.

I think the prices for most of this stuff is insane, regardless of the component or speaker and personally, think it has no justification within this market or any comparable luxury market.
 
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MontanaJoe said:
Thank you, that wasn't so hard.

I think the prices for most of this stuff is insane, regardless of the component or speaker and personally, think it has no justification within this market or any comparable luxury market.
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While I largely agree with you, I would suggest that by the time you reach this market, the primary criteria for value has long ago abandoned any kind of rational price/performance ratio. I suspect that it’s all about status in that crowd, and that quality doesn’t lend itself to a reasonable price tag, not to mention that it’s a moving target subject to the whims of a sometimes irrational clientele.
 
2FarGone said:
While I largely agree with you, I would suggest that by the time you reach this market, the primary criteria for value has long ago abandoned any kind of rational price/performance ratio. I suspect that it’s all about status in that crowd, and that quality doesn’t lend itself to a reasonable price tag, not to mention that it’s a moving target subject to the whims of a sometimes irrational clientele.
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I don't know about that.

Some may buy for status reasons; however, every income bracket makes decisions based on what they can afford and what the perceive as the "best" product for their purposes. Not sure why, when it comes to the wealthy so many assign "status" to their purchasing decisions when I am sure most, like any income bracket, make educated decisions.

Especially this Riviera, few even know about it, so I am not sure paying 90K for a Riviera Phono Pre is a status symbol; not like it has 4 wheels and they are driving it around the neighborhood saying, look at me. In the world of 750K turntables is this nuts?

Personally, I think the prices of these things in general, not particular to this product are nuts, totally unjustifiable and geared to a market that in many ways is self-sustaining (which I really don't want to get into), but my retort was mainly to the trolling of Mikado.
 
MontanaJoe said:
I don't know about that.

Some may buy for status reasons; however, every income bracket makes decisions based on what they can afford and what the perceive as the "best" product for their purposes. Not sure why, when it comes to the wealthy so many assign "status" to their purchasing decisions when I am sure most, like any income bracket, make educated decisions.

Especially this Riviera, few even know about it, so I am not sure paying 90K for a Riviera Phono Pre is a status symbol; not like it has 4 wheels and they are driving it around the neighborhood saying, look at me. In the world of 750K turntables is this nuts?

Personally, I think the prices of these things in general, not particular to this product are nuts, totally unjustifiable and geared to a market that in many ways is self-sustaining (which I really don't want to get into), but my retort was mainly to the trolling of Mikado.
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I do think there is also a section of the hifi crowd who simply associates cost with exclusivity and performance regardless of the truth. They want to be able to say they paid $XXXXXXXX for a unit.

For instance there are boutique watch makers few have heard of outside the timepiece community, that carry zero prestige to the average person, yet command massive prices.

Certainly not true of all, but it is there just like in any product segment.
 
MontanaJoe said:
I don't know about that.

Some may buy for status reasons; however, every income bracket makes decisions based on what they can afford and what the perceive as the "best" product for their purposes. Not sure why, when it comes to the wealthy so many assign "status" to their purchasing decisions when I am sure most, like any income bracket, make educated decisions.

Especially this Riviera, few even know about it, so I am not sure paying 90K for a Riviera Phono Pre is a status symbol; not like it has 4 wheels and they are driving it around the neighborhood saying, look at me. In the world of 750K turntables is this nuts?

Personally, I think the prices of these things in general, not particular to this product are nuts, totally unjustifiable and geared to a market that in many ways is self-sustaining (which I really don't want to get into), but my retort was mainly to the trolling of Mikado.
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Trolling ??? whatever ................
 
Michaels HiFi said:
I do think there is also a section of the hifi crowd who simply associates cost with exclusivity and performance regardless of the truth. They want to be able to say they paid $XXXXXXXX for a unit.

For instance there are boutique watch makers few have heard of outside the timepiece community, that carry zero prestige to the average person, yet command massive prices.

Certainly not true of all, but it is there just like in any product segment.
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No doubt, but that can be said of any income strata or product.

A watch is for sure more likely to command the audience you describe because, like a car, people are seen wearing and/or driving it, stereos are rarely seen (or heard) by anyone but a family member or a select few invited to listen.

BUT as I indicate, it is all relative. I have in my life, witnessed all income strata in a host of different markets, buy for prestige and bragging rights within the realm the are intereacting. Not sure this is exclusive to
Mikado463 said:
Trolling ??? whatever ................
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yup let’s leave it at whatever
 
I don't make the products. I don't make the prices. everything in my life has gotten way more expensive, EVERYTHING.
Its hard for anyone to say what the prices should be. We have lived in an ever increasing spiral of costs going up and up with no end in site. I am not smart enough to know how to stop it but I am aware enough to recognize the facts.

When i started in audio 1000 was expensive. An ARC preamp was expensive and under 1000.

Phono cartridges were 100 bucks. Tone arms were under 200. Most speakers were under 1500 a pair. That was 50 or so years ago. A pizza was 2.49. A burger at Wessons wa 25 cents and fries 15 cents. My father had a coke machine and they were a bottle for 10 cents, and 5 cents was the bottle deposit. Gas was under 30 cents a gallon. My first house was 35000.
My first car was under 2000 new.

Life is now crazy. My first store in Florida in 1992 the rent was under a grand , now its 8 times that plus , plus plus.
These discussions are getting old as none of us can stop it, fix it , or do much of anything to change it.
When you by limited productions , extremely high quality products that are mostly hand built in tiny quantities by small highly trained staff this is what we get.

So come to CAPFEST and see some seriously high priced gear sound great :)
 
BendingWave said:
I don't make the products. I don't make the prices. everything in my life has gotten way more expensive, EVERYTHING.
Its hard for anyone to say what the prices should be. We have lived in an ever increasing spiral of costs going up and up with no end in site. I am not smart enough to know how to stop it but I am aware enough to recognize the facts.

When i started in audio 1000 was expensive. An ARC preamp was expensive and under 1000.

Phono cartridges were 100 bucks. Tone arms were under 200. Most speakers were under 1500 a pair. That was 50 or so years ago. A pizza was 2.49. A burger at Wessons wa 25 cents and fries 15 cents. My father had a coke machine and they were a bottle for 10 cents, and 5 cents was the bottle deposit. Gas was under 30 cents a gallon. My first house was 35000.
My first car was under 2000 new.

Life is now crazy. My first store in Florida in 1992 the rent was under a grand , now its 8 times that plus , plus plus.
These discussions are getting old as none of us can stop it, fix it , or do much of anything to change it.
When you by limited productions , extremely high quality products that are mostly hand built in tiny quantities by small highly trained staff this is what we get.

So come to CAPFEST and see some seriously high priced gear sound great :)
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BW, myself, like you, go back quite a few years(I remember gas under 20 cents a gallon), so we both know what inflation has done over the years. My reaction / feelings towards a 70k phono-pre does not change regardless of ones quality explanation or inflation.
 
Mikado463 said:
BW, myself, like you, go back quite a few years(I remember gas under 20 cents a gallon), so we both know what inflation has done over the years. My reaction / feelings towards a 70k phono-pre does not change regardless of ones quality explanation or inflation.
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I am not trying to rationalize any of it. I just find the complaining about the prices of it all really boring. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. There are plenty of choices at all different price levels.
Complaining about it doesn't change anything. High end Audio like most things is costly and its not going to change.
 
BendingWave said:
I am not trying to rationalize any of it. I just find the complaining about the prices of it all really boring. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. There are plenty of choices at all different price levels.
Complaining about it doesn't change anything. High end Audio like most things is costly and its not going to change.
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BW, I'm not complaining, rather, stated my opinion on what I consider to be a ridiculously overpriced phono-pre, nothing more. You're a dealer for the line, I get it ..............
 
I think someone deserves this exquisite piece of gear. Not me though. Im sure its the cats meow., and I hope to listen to it some day. Im content with my highly priced Boulder 508, and K&K Audio Maxxed Phone Amp.
 
Mikado463 said:
BW, I'm not complaining, rather, stated my opinion on what I consider to be a ridiculously overpriced phono-pre, nothing more. You're a dealer for the line, I get it ..............
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Just for my edification are all of the big name companies that are making Preamps, Phono Preamps etc over priced? or just this one?
D'agostino, Constellation, Soulution, CH Precision, ARC, VAC etc.
 
BendingWave said:
Just for my edification are all of the big name companies that are making Preamps, Phono Preamps etc over priced? or just this one?
D'agostino, Constellation, Soulution, CH Precision, ARC, VAC etc.
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IMO, no, but given the 'looks' of the one being discussed here I suspect there will be one residing in the 'Oval Office' in the near future............ ;)
 
MontanaJoe said:
It was obvious what this guy was doing and the same guy who criticizes others but it is what it is as are his stupid petulant replies and funny faces
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Joe, my posts were not aimed at an individual rather an object and my opinion relative that object. You disagree with me, fine, that's your prerogative.
 
brad225 said:
Dave's not a troll. When he comes to Florida in the winter he rents a beach house. He doesn't live under a bridge. :)
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Brad, an ounce of levity and some guys go bonkers, oh well hope all is well in the 'Sunshine State' !!
 
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