Tubes + Ladders on the aqua take time.
Some folks think break in is BS.
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New DAC is here!!
- Thread starter Michaels HiFi
- Start date
Tubes + Ladders on the aqua take time.
Some folks think break in is BS.
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Porsche
Active member
i do not think break in is BS, tubes/caps/etc do not take 300hrs to break in, if you run a piece of gear non stop drawing current thru its devices it should take 50hrs if that, not 300hrs.
Porsche
Active member
in a lot of cases its just "talk". do you honestly think you can tell a difference in tube sound from 50hrs to 300hrs? i do not. thats my opinion, you can follow the manufactures suggestions all you want but the sound will not change for 50-75hrs to over 300hrs. im into porsches, they recommend do not do this or that until you hit so many miles, change the oil this an that, whatever, i have never had a problem with them and have never had a performance issue
Michaels HiFi
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- #25
OK - so I just did the 110 hour listen.
Better than at 0 hours, but still has a way to go. The "organic-ness" of the tubes is starting to come to life, but it's still sounding congested and too closed in. Tough to explain, but to me it sounds exactly like a component that still needs plenty of burn in.
Manufacturer says 300 hours, so I'm going to set it back to the burn in cycle and then give it a listen next weekend. I'll listen with the stock tubes in it and then once familiar with it I'll swap out and put in the NOS tubes.
Better than at 0 hours, but still has a way to go. The "organic-ness" of the tubes is starting to come to life, but it's still sounding congested and too closed in. Tough to explain, but to me it sounds exactly like a component that still needs plenty of burn in.
Manufacturer says 300 hours, so I'm going to set it back to the burn in cycle and then give it a listen next weekend. I'll listen with the stock tubes in it and then once familiar with it I'll swap out and put in the NOS tubes.
Jack
Active member
Based on my Aqua experience you may still feel that way at 300 hrs for the SS section.
Help me with this logic: You ignored a car's mfg directives and didn't experience a problem with your car, therefore, this amp doesn't need 300hrs break-in. did I get that right?
Porsche
Active member
i was stating that a manufacturer recommendation isn't always accurate. why would a tube amp need 300hrs to break in to function properly and sound its best.
ok, look forward to posters thoughts on this dac
Lee Scoggins
Member
My friend Jim Smith has one of these and I have heard it several times. It is superb.
Michaels HiFi
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- Thread Author
- #31
Thank you. I'm going to keep it going and put the time in on the stock tubes and save my NOS tubes.
Hi Michael,
Luckily, 12AT7/ECC81 NOS aren't terribly expensive compared to some of the other sweeties in the 12A* family. They aren't free, but nowhere near 12AX7 or 5751 pricing these days.
Michaels HiFi
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- #33
Yup. I've got a pair of NOS ready to go!
Michaels HiFi
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- #34
You were absolutely right. At 300 hours I was still very unimpressed. I just hit 400 hours today and now it is starting to come alive! Once I hit 500 hours I'll listen again and then put in the NOS tubes.
But 300 hours is no where near enough time and will lead to disappointment if people make a decision based on the 300 hour sound.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
It's the capacitors that generally take a long time to burn in. As an example, the Teflon caps in my CJ CT-5 preamp took...1500 hours to burn in. About 2 1/2 years of listening.
Also, the crystal oscillators components and circuits used for Master clocks can also require several hundred hours of burn-in.
My Lumin P1 really needed 400 hours of burn-in and 500 hours to get "up on the cam" as we say in motor racing...
Folks would do well to exercise the patience of a saint, and the discipline of a samurai with gear at this level.
Michaels HiFi
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- #36
I totally agree. I'm willing to wait until it sounds right before I pop in the NOS tubes.
Michaels HiFi
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- #37
OK - update as I did some serious listening last night now that I am at ~600 hours and that I burned in the new Telegartner switch and OPT bridge.
Listening I felt as though the DAC was a bit lifeless and dull (still with the stock tubes) and was not impressed. I was thinking maybe I was better sticking with the Rose as a combo streamer/DAC and had made a mistake,
So after some thinking, I remembered I had the speakers aiming straight to smooth out the sound of the previous gear. So I set about toeing in the speakers just a bit and measuring with laser measure and BAM! - the sound came to life and became much more open and airy sounding. Much more engaging and never sounded harsh or brittle - just more organic then every before. VERY pleased indeed.
I want to put another 150 hours or so on the Telegartner and cables and then later this week I'm going to try the NOS tubes.
Mike - you steered me right on this DAC! Thank you!
Listening I felt as though the DAC was a bit lifeless and dull (still with the stock tubes) and was not impressed. I was thinking maybe I was better sticking with the Rose as a combo streamer/DAC and had made a mistake,
So after some thinking, I remembered I had the speakers aiming straight to smooth out the sound of the previous gear. So I set about toeing in the speakers just a bit and measuring with laser measure and BAM! - the sound came to life and became much more open and airy sounding. Much more engaging and never sounded harsh or brittle - just more organic then every before. VERY pleased indeed.
I want to put another 150 hours or so on the Telegartner and cables and then later this week I'm going to try the NOS tubes.
Mike - you steered me right on this DAC! Thank you!
Porsche
Active member
curious, when you swap out to NOS tubes, 500hrs to listen?
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
- Thread Author
- #39
I'm only going to put an hour or so on the NOS tubes prior to listening.
Puma Cat
Well-known member
Cool, but can't say I'm surprised at your findings. That's because there is a statistically signficant interaction between your room and speaker placement angle. In home set-ups these two are usually signficant factors. Often times key factors...interact (you know, like that whole time*temperature interaction thang in chemistry? Um...yeah.)†
And, this is why a lot of speaker design in is done is anechoic chambers, to take the room "out of the equation" (technically: the transfer function) from that whole room*speaker interaction thang...
Well...that's whats going with your room & speaker placement angle: they are interacting. It's a system, and the component parts are interacting together to produce the in-room response. Just like that whole Time*Temperature interaction thang when...baking cookies. Funny how that works, but...it's how a lot of chemistry works. Physics, too.
To wit: The DOE (Design of Experiments) I did to integrate my REL to my main speakers. See that plot panel at the very lower left called "Interaction Profiles"? The red and blue lines in the upper right panel converging to a common intercept show a statistically significant...interaction between Sub GAIN and Sub Crossover setting.
Anyhoo, good resuts, Michael. Cheers and keep us posted as you get hours on the La Scala.
†–To digress briefly, this is a major problem with how Science is taught in schools and universities: OFAT (One Factor at A Time). The problem with OFAT and how it's taught is it's usually not how physics, chemistry, and lots of other science and engineering actually work.