My next preamp: Cary SPL-90 CLONE

2FarGone said:
Here is what I don’t understand - it seems pretty clearly to be trademark infringement, and the likelihood of successfully addressing it in China seems nil, but why are these products even allowed into countries where protections against this kind of blatant IP theft exist? As I think @ggdudeabides pointed out, it’s unlikely anyone would give these things a second glance were they not clearly identified as being copies of well-respected and patented products. The patents may have expired, but the trademarks haven’t as far as I know.
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As previously explained, one patents expire they are fair game to be copied. Good products are copied everywhere all the time for all sorts of things -- what entitles audiophile equipment to a "special pleading"?

What seems to bother many audiophiles, (not you of course, @2FarGone ), is that these copies make expense stuff available for cheap. Sadly, in their own eyes it make them doubt, the rationale for buying astronomically expensive equipment. It's also true that the same vanity affront applies to high quality Chinese brands like Topping, SMSL, Cayin, etc., as well as to Schiit Audio. It's an ego thing.

Granted, apart from low price, much of their appeal lies in the reputation of the original designers and producers: so be it.

However If you want to criticise "clone" stick to substantial things. There are a risks to buying them; some legitimate risks include:
  • Copying is not sufficiently close to the original designs to duplicate the sonic properties
  • PCBs are poor quality and/or not laid out well in terms of optimal performance
  • Components are poor quality or out of spec
  • Components are counterfeit
  • Service is unavailable from the producers
  • There can be safe delivery problems from remote, Asian locations.
.
 
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Feanor said:
You can believe I've got those same problems. ;) Mocking people for what are obvious typos is ad hominem attack and a fallacy.
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Ah yes.....Dishonestly and desperately claiming a simple post is an 'attack'. How typical.
 
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RepublicOfTexas69 said:
Oh we get it but our tightly wound woke friend from the Great White North has issues with humor and sarcasm. He should reach in the cupboard for mother's little helper...
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There are times when all of us-certainly including yours truly-can benefit by laughing at ourselves a bit. As Art Linkletter said, Audiophiles say the darndest things.
 
Kramer64 said:
There are times when all of us-certainly including yours truly-can benefit by laughing at ourselves a bit. As Art Linkletter said, Audiophiles say the darndest things.
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I agree. I laugh at myself all the time. I'm a total putz and admit it.
 
Feanor said:
is that these copies make expense stuff available for cheap.
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You've got to be a total fool to think clones make "expensive stuff cheap".

The hypocrisy is strong with this: people wanting companies to pay 'their fair share of taxes' taxes and 'living wages'....until it interferes with their ability to buy audio gear. Then they support slave labor, Uyghur concentration camps and corporate theft while buying from back room companies in China.

That's like saying my Honda is a clone of a Ferrari - they are both red, have 4 tires, some seats, and a steering wheel.
 
Michaels HiFi said:
You've got to be a total fool to think clones make "expensive stuff cheap".

The hypocrisy is strong with this: people wanting companies to pay 'their fair share of taxes' taxes and 'living wages'....until it interferes with their ability to buy audio gear. Then they support slave labor, Uyghur concentration camps and corporate theft while buying from back room companies in China.

That's like saying my Honda is a clone of a Ferrari - they are both red, have 4 tires, some seats, and a steering wheel.
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Delusional even a fool has moments of clarity.
 
Is there a patent on any tube gear? Its all known circuits? And is it patent infringement is its not a direct replica. I'm not even sure it's trademark infringement if they call it out as a clone? Arn't they just saying they are aiming for a sonic signature? Using a similar circuit. But again, is there a patent on a circuit that was maybe made 60 years ago.

I don't know a clone is any less than any other audio component made in China. There are big brand name companies manufacturing in China, right. All those high end parts used in premium products made in chine, may have come from China.

I know people that have their favorite makers in China deliver all sorts of amplifiers to them. They are supposed to be fantastic. You get what you pay for. If you know and trust the guy making it, and request quality caps, resistors and iron, you can get a great amp at a affordable price.

I believe the high end market has priced itself out of many peoples reach. I feel no devotion to a company that claims !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, owe, the price is $$$$$$$$$. If a builder in china can make you an amp for $5000 to $7000, and the company in the US or Europe wants $80k to $250,000 for something similar, do you have some sort of obligation to a company you would never buy from?


What I'm saying is, dollar for dollar, if you know the right maker in China, your getting flagship quality and performance for dimes on the dollar. Not pennies. if you want real performance there is a cost.
Michaels HiFi said:
You've got to be a total fool to think clones make "expensive stuff cheap".

The hypocrisy is strong with this: people wanting companies to pay 'their fair share of taxes' taxes and 'living wages'....until it interferes with their ability to buy audio gear. Then they support slave labor, Uyghur concentration camps and corporate theft while buying from back room companies in China.

That's like saying my Honda is a clone of a Ferrari - they are both red, have 4 tires, some seats, and a steering wheel.
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Agree mostly. I have a friend that was builfing a plant in china. Its not slave labor. But its a life of destitution that kills you early. An existence with no hope.

As far as quality. You can get really good equipment from China. They have access to everything. And they have smart, tallented designers and builders. Just look at their EV automobile. Probably the best in the world. And inexpensive. Tesla is the only one better. And that is only in the software. Not the rest of the car.
 
Kingrex said:
What I'm saying is, dollar for dollar, if you know the right maker in China, your getting flagship quality and performance for dimes on the dollar. Not pennies. if you want real performance there is a cost.

Agree mostly. I have a friend that was builfing a plant in china. Its not slave labor. But its a life of destitution that kills you early. An existence with no hope.

As far as quality. You can get really good equipment from China. They have access to everything. And they have smart, tallented designers and builders. Just look at their EV automobile. Probably the best in the world. And inexpensive. Tesla is the only one better. And that is only in the software. Not the rest of the car.
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I agree - you certainly can get some great gear from there and they are capable of making good stuff.
 
Kingrex said:
...
As far as quality. You can get really good equipment from China. They have access to everything. And they have smart, tallented designers and builders. Just look at their EV automobile. Probably the best in the world. And inexpensive. Tesla is the only one better. And that is only in the software. Not the rest of the car.
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The Chinese can build to whatever quality level they want to, OR whatever quality you want them to if you are off-shoring your manufacturing. Needless to say many Chinese makers will decide for cheapness vs. quality.

The days are long gone when China was only about cheap labor. Labor there is still cheaper than here, but the Chinese at the same time making themselves leaders in automated & robot manufacturing -- if jobs are coming back to the USA on account of the policies of the current Administration, most of them will be going to robots.
 
Feanor said:
The Chinese can build to whatever quality level they want to, OR whatever quality you want them to if you are off-shoring your manufacturing. Needless to say many Chinese makers will decide for cheapness vs. quality.

The days are long gone when China was only about cheap labor. Labor there is still cheaper than here, but the Chinese at the same time making themselves leaders in automated & robot manufacturing -- if jobs are coming back to the USA on account of the policies of the current Administration, most of them will be going to robots.
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Guess that's why your country is doing so well, because they are suckholing China.... China is not the global leader in automation and robotics, you need to stop getting your information from Tik-Tok old man.
 
Actually China, is, the leader in robotics, especially industrial and humanoid. They recently held a competition their humanoid robots broke actual human records in track.

U.S. still has an edge in AI,software and autonomy

China was reported to have nearly 300,000 industrial robots as of 2024, that's an army.

My mind was blown an actual robot that can run 100 meters faster than a human. Can Terminator be far off? No matter the country most any invention the military is looking to see if it can be a weapon.
 
Hi Kingrex. Absent marketing to attract interest and sales, how do you explain and / or condone a Chinese clone using a well known hi end manufacturer's name, model number and brand reputation? Other than the Chinese clones, are you aware of any other examples that employ this marketing strategy? I think I know the answer but want your perspective. Best.
 
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