My next preamp: Cary SPL-90 CLONE

It does seem vary unfair to the original designer / manufacturer, even though the expired copyright date expired, to allow such a limited market specialty, minimal profit item to be cloned and sold. I know copyright has its place but in this case, it seems like intellectual property and loss of sales (to the original designer) is robbery as a minimum. Not to mention morally unethical. Having said that. personal morals and integrity are rare qualities these days.

On another topic brought up in the discussion, there are some justifiable reasons why Canada has some cause for their animosity towards the USA. Check out the new Ambassador Bridge, a vital economic connection between Detroit, MI and Winsdor, ON linking both countries and funded entirely by the Canadian government. This Administration has intentionally delayed its opening. Hopefully not true anymore.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
It does seem vary unfair to the original designer / manufacturer, even though the expired copyright date expired, to allow such a limited market specialty, minimal profit item to be cloned and sold. I know copyright has its place but in this case, it seems like intellectual property and loss of sales (to the original designer) is robbery as a minimum. Not to mention morally unethical. Having said that. personal morals and integrity are rare qualities these days.

On another topic brought up in the discussion, there are some justifiable reasons why Canada has some cause for their animosity towards the USA. Check out the new Ambassador Bridge, a vital economic connection between Detroit, MI and Winsdor, ON linking both countries and funded entirely by the Canadian government. This Administration has intentionally delayed its opening and wants to charge a toll for its use. A toll for paying nothing and holding the bridge opening as hostage!! Something is very wrong with this picture.
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It depends on how you look at it. The SLP90 that we are talking about being cloned was offered from 90-94 approximately and cost about $2800.00 estimated I couldn't find an actual new MSRP this is based off a British ad. I'd say a used SLP90 might cost around the same as the clone so I don't see any issue. A new Cary Audio preamp SLP98 would cost $6k or more depending on version/features. With that I don't see how a clone is taking money out of Cary's pocket. My concern might be reputation in case of an inferior product the buyer has to realize "clone" is the operative word.
 
Mr Peabody said:
It depends on how you look at it. The SLP90 that we are talking about being cloned was offered from 90-94 approximately and cost about $2800.00 estimated I couldn't find an actual new MSRP this is based off a British ad. I'd say a used SLP90 might cost around the same as the clone so I don't see any issue. A new Cary Audio preamp SLP98 would cost $6k or more depending on version/features. With that I don't see how a clone is taking money out of Cary's pocket. My concern might be reputation in case of an inferior product the buyer has to realize "clone" is the operative word.
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I think the larger issue is in this instance it may be an old design, but honestly recognizing the massive scale of IP theft organized by the Chinese government in every single industry and those who pretend it's not how their government works.

I worked with Chinese companies for 25 years. The scale of IP theft and industrial espionage is on a level unmatched by any other country in the world.
 
Thank you. Good perspective. The hi end product is a very small universe with limited distribution, sales and profits. Cloning used in the specialty, low volume, designed / manufactured audio prduct market is what I find generally unacceptable, regardless of price differentials.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
It does seem vary unfair to the original designer / manufacturer, even though the expired copyright date expired, to allow such a limited market specialty, minimal profit item to be cloned and sold. I know copyright has its place but in this case, it seems like intellectual property and loss of sales (to the original designer) is robbery as a minimum. Not to mention morally unethical. Having said that. personal morals and integrity are rare qualities these days.

On another topic brought up in the discussion, there are some justifiable reasons why Canada has some cause for their animosity towards the USA. Check out the new Ambassador Bridge, a vital economic connection between Detroit, MI and Winsdor, ON linking both countries and funded entirely by the Canadian government. This Administration has intentionally delayed its opening and wants to charge a toll for its use. A toll for paying nothing and holding the bridge opening as hostage!! Something is very wrong with this picture.
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Wrong bridge. You are talking about the Gordie Howe bridge.
 
I know that. Old does not mean it has been abandoned. It means previous. Time for ignore. You're the third on this site. Bye.
 
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Mr Peabody said:
It depends on how you look at it. The SLP90 that we are talking about being cloned was offered from 90-94 approximately and cost about $2800.00 estimated I couldn't find an actual new MSRP this is based off a British ad. I'd say a used SLP90 might cost around the same as the clone so I don't see any issue. A new Cary Audio preamp SLP98 would cost $6k or more depending on version/features. With that I don't see how a clone is taking money out of Cary's pocket. My concern might be reputation in case of an inferior product the buyer has to realize "clone" is the operative word.
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Makers like Cary, Accuphase, MBL and many, many others are entitled to ask what the market will bear. Generally what the buyer gets includes the prestige of owning a slice of the makers reputation, and often handsome, custom case work. For these things they are paying a significant amount.

A rational "clone" buyer, (such as myself I believe), understands he/she is forgoing that sliver of the original maker's reputation and the fancy case. We know we weren't getting "the real thing" -- nor paying for it. If patents and copyrights are not violated. we have no obligation to do so.

At the same time the "clone" buyer assumes significant risk. That is, imperfectly copied designs and/or inferior parts. (Notwithstanding that topologies, e.g. of tube amplifiers, are often pretty simple.) Hopefully most "clone" buyers have the clarity to understand this.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
I know that. Old does not mean it has been abandoned. It means previous. Time for ignore. You're the third on this site. Bye.
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It's called a clarification/correction. Sorry it got your nose out of joint.
 
Feanor said:
Hopefully most "clone" buyers have the clarity to understand this.
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Hi Feanor. Thanks for your reasons and rational. With all due respect, the other side of the coin is that the Chinese are "stealing" or in a kinder way "using" hi end design to create a copy and realize profit. I fully recognize that this is a very purist, idealistic perspective. I also recognize that the patent has expired and this happens all the time with many other products.

The other side of the coin perspective. Hi end audio is such a small, low profit, limited market, high risk industry that the original creators should be compensated for all their time, effort and funds expended to create that product even though they have realized profit for their initial effort. This additional compensation would be somewhat similar to a royalty used in the music industry. In my view, that's fair and appropriate. Have a great day. Best.
 
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My Zero Zone SPL-90 preamp arrive safely yesterday via UPS. It's up & running presently connect to the Transaudio D5 DartZeel copy previously mentioned. After several hours burn-in of the tubes, it's sound very nice, actually above expectation for air & transparency.

My next step of evaluation will be to connect the ZZ SPL-90 to my Purifi 1ET400A amp, (which has VTV buffers with Sparkos SS3602 op amps). Given the very low distortion character of the Purifi amp, the distinct character of ZZ should be revealed At this point in time the ZZ connect to the Purifi will be RCA single-end via RCA>XLR cable. In a few days I ought to receive an active SE to Balanced/differential converter, like THIS one, which will be the more optimal way to drive the Purifi.

I listened to the John Eliot Gardiner /Monteverdi Choir /English Baroque Soloists 1992 recording of J.S. Bach's Cantata BWV 140. This recording has good sound and, like large scale choral works in general, is pretty demanding of one's system. The ZZ > Transaudio detail & air were frankly very surprisingly good in comparison to the Schiit Kara > Purifi sound. It was just as easy to distinguish individual voice during the choruses. I can also mention that on this first listen voices sounded a tad sweeter & fuller than the Kara > Purifi rendition.

I also listened to the Igor Golovschin/ Moscow Symphony Orchestra version of Isaac Albéniz' 'Iberia' on Nazos. This recording has lots of detail & air provide one's amplification can handle it. In case the ZZ > D5 was gratifyingly good at revealing the detail & air but not quite as good as the Kara > Purifi.
 

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Feanor said:
My Zero Zone SPL-90 preamp arrive safely yesterday via UPS. It's up & running presently connect to the Transaudio D5 DartZeel copy previously mentioned. After several hours burn-in of the tubes, it's sound very nice, actually above expectation for air & transparency.

My next step of evaluation will be to connect the ZZ SPL-90 to my Purifi 1ET400A amp, (which has VTV buffers with Sparkos SS3602 op amps). Given the very low distortion character of the Purifi amp, the distinct character of ZZ should be revealed At this point in time the ZZ connect to the Purifi will be RCA single-end via RCA>XLR cable. In a few days I ought to receive an active SE to Balanced/differential converter, like THIS one, which will be the more optimal way to drive the Purifi.

I listened to the John Eliot Gardiner /Monteverdi Choir /English Baroque Soloists 1992 recording of J.S. Bach's Cantata BWV 140. This recording has good sound and, like large scale choral works in general, is pretty demanding of one's system. The ZZ > Transaudio detail & air were frankly very surprisingly good in comparison to the Schiit Kara > Purifi sound. It was just as easy to distinguish individual voice during the choruses. I can also mention that on this first listen voices sounded a tad sweeter & fuller than the Kara > Purifi rendition.

I also listened to the Igor Golovschin/ Moscow Symphony Orchestra version of Isaac Albéniz' 'Iberia' on Nazos. This recording has lots of detail & air provide one's amplification can handle it. In case the ZZ > D5 was gratifyingly good at revealing the detail & air but not quite as good as the Kara > Purifi.
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I saw online this combo of pre and power are matched together often by users of the clones.
 
Mr Peabody said:
I saw online this combo of pre and power are matched together often by users of the clones.
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Yes, the HiFi Zone guy in particular raved about the ZZ SLP-90 being the idea preamp to match with the D5/D5Pro. Actually this is the main reason I choose the SLP-90 clone vs. other tube pres.



Probably the SLP-90 could do with a little more burn-in of the tubes, (I got the upgraded tubes vs. those he reviewed). As of now I'm enjoying the slight additional warmth in the upper bass /lower midrange. The midrange seems bit prominent vs. my other comb, and in small ensembles the instruments and vocals have pleasant luster. For large-scale orchestral and choral pieces, or say, Loreena McKennitt's complex arrangements, the Kara > Purify definitely renders the greater clarity.

 
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