My New Lumin

wisnon said:
Not really true. On a HDD or SSD, the software s laways moving data around, trying to optimize space and backup functions (like Raid 5, etc). This causes jitter to be embedded in your bit perfect file, which may NOT have been jitter perfect in the first place if it went over a network to your storage medium. However with SD card storage, this does NOT happen and thus is inherently jitter superior to a NAS for example. Then there is the issue of AMPLITUDE/waveform distortion….

Many layers to peel back in this onion and we are not at the centre yet.
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wisnon,

Sorry, but that's not how it happens. You're talking about file fragmentation, which does exist in any means of storage. Files are hardly ever stored contiguously, so, when retrieving the actual file, the pieces will be read from all over the storage. But to attribute "jitter" to a file read operation is beyond reasonable, IMHO. No timing information is ever used for this operation, and since jitter is intrinsically associated with timing, there's no reason to talk about jitter when talking about a pure file read off a storage device.

Of course, I may be wrong, and, in this case, I'd love to read more about how a file read/write operation can embed jitter into files...

thanks,
alexandre
 
I don't understand -- how can jitter be embeded in a file? That's a property of the transfer, not of the file. It seems that what you're saying is that all the work a NAS has to do to retrieve the file generates a lot of noise and interference, which I agree with.

If indeed a SD card (or RAM) does generate less noise when transmitting the file, I suppose the trick is to copy the file there before you read it, no? Isn't it what software players like Audirvana (for Mac) plus do exactly for that reason?

It seems in any case clear that SSDs or USB keys do give better results than traditional HD in most cases (at least according to those who tried them in the same setting -- I haven't). It's logical if we believe that the noise generated is function of the power used.
 
asiufy said:
wisnon,

Sorry, but that's not how it happens. You're talking about file fragmentation, which does exist in any means of storage. Files are hardly ever stored contiguously, so, when retrieving the actual file, the pieces will be read from all over the storage. But to attribute "jitter" to a file read operation is beyond reasonable, IMHO. No timing information is ever used for this operation, and since jitter is intrinsically associated with timing, there's no reason to talk about jitter when talking about a pure file read off a storage device.

Of course, I may be wrong, and, in this case, I'd love to read more about how a file read/write operation can embed jitter into files...

thanks,
alexandre
Click to expand...

I believe you are right Alexandre.
 
asiufy said:
wisnon,

Sorry, but that's not how it happens. You're talking about file fragmentation, which does exist in any means of storage. Files are hardly ever stored contiguously, so, when retrieving the actual file, the pieces will be read from all over the storage. But to attribute "jitter" to a file read operation is beyond reasonable, IMHO. No timing information is ever used for this operation, and since jitter is intrinsically associated with timing, there's no reason to talk about jitter when talking about a pure file read off a storage device.

Of course, I may be wrong, and, in this case, I'd love to read more about how a file read/write operation can embed jitter into files...

thanks,
alexandre
Click to expand...

Alex, I think you are wrong here. 2 VERY high end designers confirmed this to me (as you may know, I like to shoot the breeze with these guys when I ave the chance). This explains somewhat the advantage of memory players and the shift taking place to SDXC playback on the fringes. Embedded jitter is real.
 
wisnon said:
Alex, I think you are wrong here. 2 VERY high end designers confirmed this to me (as you may know, I like to shoot the breeze with these guys when I ave the chance). This explains somewhat the advantage of memory players and the shift taking place to SDXC playback on the fringes. Embedded jitter is real.
Click to expand...

Well, I believe I'm not. There are many ways to explain a phenomenon, and making something up is one of them :)

Memory players and streamers are (usually) better because they're able to transfer data (bits) at the network level, where timing is irrelevent. It's like a Mac reading off a NAS. No jitter there, sir :) Now, when it's time for the Mac to send these bits over to the DAC (or the memory player/streamer), that's where timing is relevant. That's why the Lumin guy defended his "all-in-one" streamer/DAC solution, and that's why the MSB DAC works great with the MSB UMT+ transport/streamer, since one is slaved to the other, and thus able to synchronously stream the bits, synced to one clock.

Really, I honestly do want to read more about this, so these 2 very high end designers have any papers or even simple documents explaining the situation, I'd be most grateful.

thanks,
alexandre
 
rrwmd said:
Just got an email that my (black) Lumin will be delivered Monday the 17th.

Woo hoo!
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Congratulations! Black Lumin looks better than silver, my room is not finished yet.
 

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asiufy said:
Well, I believe I'm not. There are many ways to explain a phenomenon, and making something up is one of them :)

Memory players and streamers are (usually) better because they're able to transfer data (bits) at the network level, where timing is irrelevent. It's like a Mac reading off a NAS. No jitter there, sir :) Now, when it's time for the Mac to send these bits over to the DAC (or the memory player/streamer), that's where timing is relevant. That's why the Lumin guy defended his "all-in-one" streamer/DAC solution, and that's why the MSB DAC works great with the MSB UMT+ transport/streamer, since one is slaved to the other, and thus able to synchronously stream the bits, synced to one clock.

Really, I honestly do want to read more about this, so these 2 very high end designers have any papers or even simple documents explaining the situation, I'd be most grateful.

thanks,
alexandre
Click to expand...

I have no idea about papers, but when these 2 independent/unrelated guys (Herve is not one of them, though he makes an Ethernet Dac now) confirm the same thing, I listen!

Next time I meet up with Herve, I will ask what his opinions are on this matter.
 
Jazzman said:
Congratulations! Black Lumin looks better than silver, my room is not finished yet.
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Sweet setup with the Black Chord amps and all black electronics. What speakers are those (looks like Zellatons?)

What left to finish in your room?
 
Mike said:
Gorgeous!!! How do you like the Lumin?
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Using it since last July, probably the best in the market, you don't need any DAC or CD/SACD player. I listened almost all digital systems including new dcs Vivaldi. Lumin sounds better to me.
 
Jazzman said:
Using it since last July, probably the best in the market, you don't need any DAC or CD/SACD player. I listened almost all digital systems including new dcs Vivaldi. Lumin sounds better to me.
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Woot!!! I agree! Li has stories (and pics I've seen) of guys selling their DCS stacks for the Lumin!
 
I'm going to do a demo with the Aurender S10, Lumin, Manley 300b preamp in my system this Sunday. If the Lumin doesn't stack, don't start throwing stones. I currently have the Macbookpro with SSD using Audirvana+ into the Meitner MA-1, everything isolated with HRS & Stillpoints, not to mention my SGR Audio rack that is isolated with sorbothane, one of the better materials in my liking, the dac has the EMM Labs propriety jitter cancelling techno in it, bring it on........:woot::woot::woot::fingers::ko::newmail:
 
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