My lying ears!

AJ Soundfield said:
Yes. For a reviewer, more than enough. Again, a simple impedance curve would tell whether it should be paired with certain amps or not.
The phone mic is plenty good for a LP spectral shot, especially in the bass, even if for individual rather than published use. $130.
No "oscilloscopes" and lab coat speciousness needed.:P

cheers,
AJ
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Why isn't this information provided by the speaker companies? Shouldn't speaker manufacturers know what type of amp is needed to drive their individual models and provide that information to their potential customers? Do you really want to leave that up to reviewers to tell your potential customers what kind of amps they should buy to go with your speakers based on $130 worth of gear from Dayton Audio? Seriously?

Something is wrong in my opinion if a speaker company is reliant on reviewers and $130 worth of test gear to take impedance plots and then provide recommendations for suitable amplifiers to drive your speakers.
 
mep said:
Why isn't this information provided by the speaker companies? Shouldn't speaker manufacturers know what type of amp is needed to drive their individual models and provide that information to their potential customers? Do you really want to leave that up to reviewers to tell your potential customers what kind of amps they should buy to go with your speakers based on $130 worth of gear from Dayton Audio? Seriously?

Something is wrong in my opinion if a speaker company is reliant on reviewers and $130 worth of test gear to take impedance plots and then provide recommendations for suitable amplifiers to drive your speakers.
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It should be provided by the manufacturer, and then independently verified as part of the review.
Keith
 
mep said:
Why isn't this information provided by the speaker companies?
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Because folks like yourself abhor measurements and claim they are not wanted, or needed by the "wrong company" crowd.
I certainly can and do provide impedance, as do a few others. But verification should fall on audio reviewers just like with cars and computers. Performance claims can be exaggerated, or patently false.

mep said:
Shouldn't speaker manufacturers know what type of amp is needed to drive their individual models and provide that information to their potential customers?
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Sure, but you're the one doing the review and dispensing the info.

mep said:
Do you really want to leave that up to reviewers to tell your potential customers what kind of amps they should buy to go with your speakers based on $130 worth of gear from Dayton Audio? Seriously?
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Yes, since that $100 piece is more than sufficient for impedance, even if it's above your ability to understand.

mep said:
Something is wrong in my opinion if a speaker company is reliant on reviewers and $130 worth of test gear to take impedance plots and then provide recommendations for suitable amplifiers to drive your speakers.
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Spin it all you wish, but Stereophile, etc. does just that, albeit with a more expensive piece...that gives exactly the same impedance result. Yes, educating oneself about speaker impedance and amplifier power vs load and output impedance does indeed take a bit more critical thinking that just flowery prose, but the consumer benefits in the end...not that that may matter to you.
 
Purité Audio said:
It should be provided by the manufacturer, and then independently verified as part of the review.
Keith
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Bingo but then again, 'Who Do You trust ? Personally I would think a reviewer would keep the manufacturer honest, but very few measure equipment, it's by ear only.

JA in Stereophile has a time or two questioned a manufacturers specifications during his testing/measurements.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Because folks like yourself abhor measurements and claim they are not wanted, or needed by the "wrong company" crowd.
I certainly can and do provide impedance, as do a few others. But verification should fall on audio reviewers just like with cars and computers. Performance claims can be exaggerated, or patently false.
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This thread is starting to smell like WBF when Amir came off the rails and demanded that all audio reviewers go out and spend $70K on test gear like he did and reviewers were expected to provide a full set of measurements with their reviews. As we all know, there are only a couple of magazines that actually provide measurements with their reviews, and they certainly aren't provided by the reviewers. The only exception that I'm aware of is JA who not only takes all of the measurements for SP but he also reviews gear from time to time. And for the record, I don't abhor measurements so you can drop me from the "folks like yourself" comment.


AJ Soundfield said:
Sure, but you're the one doing the review and dispensing the info.
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Another cheap shot at reviewers. Reviewers always state what gear they use in their system when they write a review and whether said gear interfaced well with the gear being reviewed. When a speaker company puts products up for sale, it shouldn't be a mystery waiting to be solved by a reviewer for which type of amp is going to work well with your speakers. Car companies don't make car reviewers figure out what type of oil and gas are required for their vehicles.


AJ Soundfield said:
Yes, since that $100 piece is more than sufficient for impedance, even if it's above your ability to understand.
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Another cheap shot, but that seems to be your specialty on this forum and the other forums you haunt.


AJ Soundfield said:
Spin it all you wish, but Stereophile, etc. does just that, albeit with a more expensive piece...that gives exactly the same impedance result. Yes, educating oneself about speaker impedance and amplifier power vs load and output impedance does indeed take a bit more critical thinking that just flowery prose, but the consumer benefits in the end...not that that may matter to you.
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I'm not spinning anything, I just tell the truth. As I said before, you can count on one hand the number of magazines that actually have someone on staff with the necessary gear and training to take a set of measurements and publish them with the reviews. JA is the man for SP and he does a great job of both reviewing and taking measurements. As we all know, SP is the exception and not the rule when it comes to magazines having the capability to measure the gear that is reviewed. If the readers demanded that all reviews be accompanied by measurements or they wouldn't read them, maybe things would change. The reality is obviously different.
 
CPP said:
Bingo but then again, 'Who Do You trust ? Personally I would think a reviewer would keep the manufacturer honest, but very few measure equipment, it's by ear only.

JA in Stereophile has a time or two questioned a manufacturers specifications during his testing/measurements.
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The ideal would be a completely independent magazine, that purchases outright all the equipment it reviews, teamed by a staff of totally independent engineers.
Sadly unless a philanthropic billionaire benefactor stumps up the cash ,we are left with what we have.
JA's measurements are good, they are always my first port of a call if I am asked about a product.
Keith.
 
mep said:
This thread is starting to smell like WBF when Amir came off the rails and demanded that all audio reviewers go out and spend $70K on test gear...
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Hyperbole much? I said a $100 usb interface for impedance. Another $30 if you want for your smartphone to do basic spectral measurements, including at your seat for yourself. If you want to publish, fine.
No $100k Harman spin-o-rama, network analyser or "Oscilloscope". You computer and smartphone have all the horsepower required for these very basic, but relevant measures.

mep said:
As we all know, SP is the exception and not the rule when it comes to magazines having the capability to measure the gear that is reviewed. If the readers demanded that all reviews be accompanied by measurements or they wouldn't read them, maybe things would change. The reality is obviously different.
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Well, Soundstage does too, as does Secrets of HT, some European and Australian pubs, etc.
Once again, why is flowery prose only, better than flower prose + a few measurements like impedance, maybe nearfield or seat FR?
The "$70k" excuse isn't there in this day of serious computing power in phones!
 
CPP said:
The man changes his speakers about as much as I change my golf shoes :D
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Blame Sumiko/FSG for this one. No B&M store for me....at least in the foreseeable future. High monthly rent is a stress I don't want. Been there, done that.
 
Not for anything, but some of you are getting pretty snarky. Let's tone down on the aggressiveness, shall we?
 
Zero said:
Not for anything, but some of you are getting pretty snarky. Let's tone down on the aggressiveness, shall we?
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Agreed. We can all agree to disagree....I'm keeping an open mind as well.

Still waiting for the "text book" measured speaker example though.
 
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