My lying ears!

My only thought is this: if those who are unhappy with reviewers, their rooms, their lack of kowtowing to the measurement folks, should try doing their own reviews.

It's easy being a Monday morning quarterback...
 
This , is really silly now , its like some kind of fascist Mafia with you 2 reviewer dudes, first you fabricate a situation then keep making it up as you go along . MEP requested Mikes intervention on nothing , then states he is not buying insinuating mike has to deal with it ,

Deal with What ...

Now Bastor is insinuating that Im turning up at Mikes uninvited ... Lmao, you guys share lunch boxes too..


Enuff with you two ...
 
Zero said:
So....reviewers hate measurements now? That's news to me.
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Hate might be a bit strong wording, but some obviously dislike the mere mention.
Guess because one has the intellectual curiosity to try to understand the hows and why electro-acoustic stuff works...in an electro-acoustic hobby, makes one a pariah, in the view of the intellectually non-curious. The same folks who bemoan the lack of correlation between measurements and what is heard (according to them)...despise any rigorous attempt to find why!
Accepting voodoo nonsense, pseudo-science and magical explanations have never cut it for me since around age 10, of course, YMMV.
I just now caught you are a reviewer. :) Cool, I'll have to check out your vids.
Can you think of any good reason why a reviewer wouldn't want to measure the impedance of a loudspeaker? Not the FRs, sound power, etc, etc, now, just impedance. Something very basic that would tell whether it should be paired...excuse me, "synergized" with certain amps...or not?
Because that's exactly what the impedance magnitude/phase curve will tell, instead of some flowery prose. Not that flowery prose should be excluded.

Anyway, all have a great holiday weekend, enjoy some tunes, recorded or live.

cheers,

AJ
 
Alright, so here are my thoughts on the subject(s) at hand:

On lying ears: A few months back, I decided to conduct a blind test to see if I could easily discern the differences between various digital compression types on my iMac. As the test move forward, I decided to throw in high-res masters into the mix, just for giggles. So what was my general take away from the experience? Well if I had to be brutally honest, it was that I should never throw down big money on my ability to identify what's what. At least when it comes to files that are stored on a mechanical hard-drive.

Anyway, the general point is: We could all use a reality check every now and then.

On reviewers and measurements: Witnessing the relationship between what we hear and how something measures is both awesome AND educational! Honestly, I don't know of too many reviewers who are against the notion of measuring what they review. The problem is that most em' have neither the time or resources to play with nifty things like anechoic chambers, spectrum analyzers, signal generators, oscilloscopes, and so on and so forth.
 
Zero said:
The problem is that most em' have neither the time or resources to play with nifty things like anechoic chambers, spectrum analyzers, signal generators, oscilloscopes, and so on and so forth.
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Ummm, $15 and a $10 app and you're measuring the spectral balance at your seat, even for your own curiosity.
$100 and you're measuring impedance from a USB port.
Both very easy to use with minimal learning curve.
Flower prose better than flowery prose + impedance?
I have a hard time accepting that.

cheers,

AJ
 
a.wayne said:
Is the Dayton Audio Stuff any good ..?
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Some yes, some no. Early versions of the Woofer Tester and DATS were to be avoided, but it appears that they finally everything out with DATS V2.

As for drivers, I believe some are manufactured by Usher and Gradient.
 
Mike said:
My only thought is this: if those who are unhappy with reviewers, their rooms, their lack of kowtowing to the measurement folks, should try doing their own reviews.

It's easy being a Monday morning quarterback...
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I've written reviews, it's not that hard. The only hard part is the first 2 paragraphs, after that it's be clever in covering all the bullet points.

Listen, this whole thing comes down to one simple obvious truth - denying there's a problem isn't going to make the problem go away. Readers (customers) in large part want something more tangible than just the writers opinion, so give it to them. How does that reality keep turning into such a flash point? It's almost like this has turned into a political issue, partisans on either side refusing to budge out of arrogance.

It reminds of the debate these days with police over-aggression and killings. One side refuses to admit that there's a problem, says they're "bad guys" who deserved it. The other black and whites the whole thing as all cops are racist murders. In the end, nobody budges, nothing changes. But there IS an issue, the problem is real.

So everybody can keep getting their panties in a twist every time measurements are mentioned, or the writers can chill and realize that hard tangible data would help them deliver a better product to the consumer. Am I the only one who understands that?
 
a.wayne said:
Is the Dayton Audio Stuff any good ..?
Click to expand...

The OmniMic is all one needs for speaker and room measurements. It's very easy to use, accurate, and presents data in a very logical way.

Every single person here who doesn't take measurements of their system right now could improve the sound they're getting by doing so, and of course using that data to make adjustments. For $250, what's the excuse not to?
 
If you have any links to your reviews, would love to read them.

As for specs - for me - it's like this: if I like a speaker, I check the measurements. If the measurements are bad, but the speaker sounds great, I still like it. If the speaker measures good, I still like it.

Good or bad measurements in no way affect my opinion of a speaker because we cannot measure so many of the characteristics that make a great speaker. Like how will measurements tell me the differences between MBL 101 Extremes, Harbeth 40.2's and Maggie 20.7's? I will see different charts and graphs and see mid bass bumps here and there and other things, but there is no bloody way measurements can tell me the spooky 3D MBL's create, the wall of sound from Maggie's and the "soul" and shear musicality from Harbeth's.

However, I will say this, I have found an inverse correlation between the speakers that measure extremely well and finding them downright boring, sterile and soulless.

Also, it seems that today we put a much greater emphasis on measurements for speakers, but don't talk as much about amp measurements or DAC measurements.
 
Although I am an engineer, and can understand all the measurements and technical details, I rarely pay that much attention to them. All of my current gear was purchased based on reviews, word of mouth, and my sense of appearance. Interestingly, all the gear, and cables, measure very well based on current accepted measurement criteria. For some strange reason, it also sounds very good. Go figure. :)
 
I love speakers like Sonus Faber STRADS, Raidho's, Harbeth and Living Voice. I wonder how they measure? Probably less than ideal I suspect...
 
Readers (customers) in large part want something more tangible than just the writers opinion, so give it to them
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Really? Most of the paying customers that I've come across could give a rats butt about measurements.
 
Mike said:
If you have any links to your reviews, would love to read them.

As for specs - for me - it's like this: if I like a speaker, I check the measurements. If the measurements are bad, but the speaker sounds great, I still like it. If the speaker measures good, I still like it.

Good or bad measurements in no way affect my opinion of a speaker because we cannot measure so many of the characteristics that make a great speaker. Like how will measurements tell me the differences between MBL 101 Extremes, Harbeth 40.2's and Maggie 20.7's? I will see different charts and graphs and see mid bass bumps here and there and other things, but there is no bloody way measurements can tell me the spooky 3D MBL's create, the wall of sound from Maggie's and the "soul" and shear musicality from Harbeth's.

However, I will say this, I have found an inverse correlation between the speakers that measure extremely well and finding them downright boring, sterile and soulless.

Also, it seems that today we put a much greater emphasis on measurements for speakers, but don't talk as much about amp measurements or DAC measurements.
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Hey Mike, I wrote for Stereomojo for awhile. But finding anything on that website is futile. I also wrote my own print magazine for 3 years, 96 pages a month, about Mazda Rotary cars called RX Tuner that was full of product reviews every issue. I've also written for a local mens lifestyle magazine call The 9's.

Unless you start taking measurements for yourself, and correlating them with what your ears are telling you, it's hard to understand the power held within them. They can tell you a lot, not everything, but a lot.

And speaker measurements are the most logical because they're the most inaccurate part of the reproduction chain, and therefore most likely to show differences in a basic measurement suite.
 
Here's a question: what speaker would the group consider a great example of a speaker that measures exemplary?

Also, I'm curious - what series measured better - the Magico Q Series or the Magico S Series? I suspect the Q series measures better, but to my ear, the S series sounds better.

I remember when I first heard the brand new S5's. I was one of the first to hear them and the dealer had Q5's in the room at the time.

I reported on another forum that the S5's sounded so much better. Well, you can imagine the reaction!

And you know what? The true litmus test of any product is what people BUY. When they're writing that check, are they buying Q's or S's? I bet Magico sold a lot more S's than Q's.

Sure, sure, you can argue that is because the S series cost less, but the Q1/Q3 was always in reach when you are already stepping up to the plate to buy S5's.
 
Mike said:
I love speakers like Sonus Faber STRADS, Raidho's, Harbeth and Living Voice. I wonder how they measure? Probably less than ideal I suspect...
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Don't know about the Living Voice, other than almost certainly their sensitivity rating is over-exaggerated. It's a simple design though, should be very easy to get them to a relatively flat response on-axis.

Sonus in general measures very well, as do modern Harbeth's. Raidho's are a bit all over the place.
 
Based on my very unscientific test, the LV's measure exactly where they say. I'm creating the same SPL's as my 93db STRADS with less push from the preamp.
Again...not scientific...but I don't have to turn up my preamp as high to get the same SPL (app on my phone) using a pink noise track.
 
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