He has more than that. The post numbers are off since the site was changed. I know Feanor a long time from another forum. He had Good gear, a Pass 150.5 Int and Magnepan 1.6's. He is a good guy.
My latest amp on the way -- NOT class D, NOT a clone, not even class A/B
- Thread starter Feanor
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ggdudeabides
Active member
I read the same redundant posts. Paraphrasing examples. Measurements are the end all . I select my gear because they measure well on ASR and it must sound good. I like accuracy and if you don't, your can choose your own coloration. Subjective judgements / reviews are useless. Audiophiles like to pay for shiny boxes, even though they are ineffectual.
If you all want to keep reading these repetitive comments, have at it. If anyone thinks I want censorship. I do not. I see a different message and intent. It's that simple and it's my perspective. Sorry if you disagree.
If you all want to keep reading these repetitive comments, have at it. If anyone thinks I want censorship. I do not. I see a different message and intent. It's that simple and it's my perspective. Sorry if you disagree.
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Feanor
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- #43
Thank you, Mr Peabody. You, Mechnutt, Shadowfax, and perhaps another one or two have known me for a long time. That is, from Audio Review and/or Audio Asylum.
If there is one thing I've been consistent about over the years, it's searching for VALUE rather than ultimate performance, (real or imagined). I think today "value" performance comes closer than ever to ultimate.
Granted, my emphasis on value has always been a matter of personal necessity. I'm not wealthy, (nor destitute for that matter), but a complete high-end system is beyond my reach. Sure, I envy people who have the means
. I absolutely would love to have complete Accuphase, McIntosh, or whatever plutocrat-level system BUT I have to look elsewhere for satisfactions, ("simpler pleasures").
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Feanor
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- #44
Thank you, Mechnutt, Yes, you & I go back to Audio Review days.
Since you mention it, I did own a Pass Labs X150.5 power amp for several years and enjoyed it. Eventually I sold it because I found the Purifi Eigentakt was better according to my preferences: more detail, transparency, and airy; also deeper, more articulate bass -- OTOH the Purifi wasn't warm and, at least with some recordings, could sound analytic and dry. That is, some things are a matter of PREFERENCE, not so much a matter or "better" or "worse".
In terms of "value", what I got for the Pass selling it 3rd hand paid for the Purifi more than twice over, but that wasn't the reason I made the switch.
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I wonder if very cheap Chinese (or other country-produced) items are really "good value”. They are cheap to buy, sound OK if the rest of one’s system is of equivalent quality, but they soon become out-dated by newer cheap products, and they are often impossible to get repaired. Used value are next to nothing because of these factors. OK, no huge loss if sent to a charity shop, but better quality stuff can often reach a good price on the used market.
Personally, I have no problem with Chinese manufacture, but I would like to think these are being built under designs and quality control of a US or EU brand and have customer service centres outside China. For example, most Quad and NAD stuff is manufactured in China and this has gone some way to keep their prices down to the extent that they offer genuinely "good value" compared with identically spec'd US or EU-built equivalents - and they retain value well and enjoy a generally accepted good reputation.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
Wow, some of the comments here make me a little apprehensive to post about the Fosi V3 I recently purchased for my Office PC based system. Yep it is cheap Chinese junk but for $80 it is doing exactly the job I got it for and I am more impressed than I thought I would be now that it has a few hundred hours on it. I can't believe how good my Dynaudio 42s are now sounding with this little amp. For anyone that just needs sound somewhere, or for a young person just starting, this little amp, a pr of decent speakers and a CD Player or TT w/Pre would be a nice compact setup. The volume control is really nice and does not ramp right up so it sounds good at low levels but really opens up at louder levels. I did not need to spend a lot of money for background audio while I work. I could just crank up the main system downstairs and hear it thru the whole house if that was the case.
I also go back 25-30 years with Peobody, MehcNutt, and Feanor, and Florian and they are all good straight up guys. We certainly don't have to like or agree with everyone's purchases but there is no reason why we can't have a civil discussion about it. If all one has is a negative comment, maybe best to just scroll along.
I also go back 25-30 years with Peobody, MehcNutt, and Feanor, and Florian and they are all good straight up guys. We certainly don't have to like or agree with everyone's purchases but there is no reason why we can't have a civil discussion about it. If all one has is a negative comment, maybe best to just scroll along.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
You shouldn't be apprehensive.
It's not about trying / buying / owning cheap Chinese junk.
It's about being proud of supporting and fostering the culture of clones / design / IP theft and bragging about it.
It's about lecturing us about measurements when we talk subjective, and then talking about subjective yourself and ignoring your lecture to others.
It's about pretending to be an aggrieved Canadien who'd rather buy Chinese stuff that harms small legitimate hifi companies because you're triggered by the US.
It's about the constant mantra lecturing us about how measurements are above all, then conveniently forgetting that on your own gear and only talking subjective.
It's about the phony intellectualism AROUND all the gear and the posts themselves.
No one here has an issue with Fosi, or any of the non-clone items. It's about the other stuff.
I fully admit I own a cheap fosi amp I use and love as my unit I use to burn in new gear. It works great. But I don't have the intellectual baggage like others here to go along with it.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
This thread is not about cloned gear and since I don't have much input about that, I only asked a simple question in that thread. I don't let any of the rest of it trigger me in any way. I learn from reading the discussions.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I was just explaining the larger issues. Unfortunately he's made it about cloning and such even to trying to tie it in with the tittle.
I agree with you - I don't care what someone owns or likes for gear.
I do reserve the right to take issue with people who lecture me about my subjective opinion being wrong since they worship measurements, then them telling us all about their new gear with only subjective analysis.
He has chosen to create the hill of the clone wars (see what I did there? LOL) and loves that discussion. That's cool, he can talk about what he wants and we can respond the way we'd like.
It fair for both sides.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
As per Measurements and White Papers, when I first joined an Audio Discussion board, it was AudioReview and I dove right into the Cable Wars. There was a guy named MtryKraft and he had a band of Merry DBT Followers. No matter what anyone said, heard, discussed, the same handfull would tell us we are wrong, can't hear it, white paper doesn't claim it and we did not do a proper DBT. Funny thin gis, the main ring leader would never post what any of his gear was as well as the followers. My guess is they had low end budget systems because the white papers made the gear look great on paper. Who knows what the ears thought.
After 2 years of that nonsense, I started posting in the Rave Recordings section and met Bill, Peabody, MechNutt and also Florian. Discussing and sharing Music was way more fun than arguing about Cables and Gear and still is.
The good thing about gear at the price of some of the Chinese stuff is that its easy to consider it disposable. If you don't mind buying Chinese and you get the performance you describe the attraction is obvious. There are also very high quality Chinese brands like Cayin. I recently bought a headphone amp-ended up with Woo Audio-but Cayin holds up against most anything I heard.
The objectivist vs subjectivist debate never seems to change any minds and is utterly predictable. We should be able to have a civil discussion though-after all, nobody forces us to buy anything-but civility is often in short supply. There is always hope that we'll collectively set our sights higher and swear off the negativity.
Feanor
Active member
- Thread Author
- #52
Of course reliability and repairability ought to part of one's Value Equation. Part of that is whether in case of a relatively cheap component, whether it could be cost-effective device repair. As mentioned above, today we live in the "disposable epoch"; it's the reality and we can't always avoid it.
Buying a prestige brand doesn't always ensure that you'll get good service or repair ability. Recently I noted this post on ASR by none other than Amir himself on the subject -- amusing and ironic in the present context. See HERE.
Amirm at ASR said:
I take Amir's point, but wouldn't you need to know how old the ML amps are to put what you quoted in context? If those amps are 5 years old, that's one thing. If they are 15 years old, it seems a bit different. For me, if I buy something for a few hundred bucks, considering it disposable makes sense unless its broke out of the box. If I pay a few thousand bucks, that changes and it would be very important to understand whether real support is available for Chinese (or any other) gear. If the option is shipping it back to China, I'm not sure I'd consider that real support. I assume some of the higher end Chinese products have service centers in the US, but I don't own any of it, so not sure if that's common.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
That is one thing nice about buying an Odyssey product from Klaus. My Stratos Plus amp cost me about $1200 20-some years ago and came with a 20 Year Warranty. Makes me shake my head when an audio Product cost Mega Bucks and comes with a 3-5 Year Warranty. That almost says "We don't expect our product to hold up very long"
Feanor
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- #56
Fosi has a established a pretty good reputation. I'd say for $80 don't sweat it.
As for Topping I have TP30 Mk.II which is a desktop DAC+amp; it's about a decade old and has always worked flawlessly. My D90 (AKM version) is 6 years old and likewise has & is working flawlessly.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
Not at all. It outperforms the $25 Lepai it replaced in spades. I would not hesitate to buy other Fosi products if I needed more cheap gear for whatever reason.
Denafrips now has service in the U.S.
I had a pair of PSB Synchrony Ones and a cap in the xover blew. The speakers were about 12 year discontinued and PSB had no parts. I would never buy one of their products again. They did not have any info about the value the cap was either.
I love Pass and Mac gear because they can fix a 20 year old amp.
Shadowfax
Well-known member
Same thing with VAC. Kevin will still repair and upgrade my 90s era Pre Amp if I ever wanted to drop the cash.
Mr Peabody
Well-known member
Crosstalk? They're monoblocks.
Ever wonder why there aren't more Class B, they have an inherent issue with crosstalk distortion.