Feanor
Active member
- Thread Author
- #21
I didn't say I didn't believe you.
I only said I personally have found Topping DACs to be very good. I've had five of them.
- DX7s
- D90
- DX5 II
- DX1 II
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My latest amp on the way -- NOT class D, NOT a clone, not even class A/B
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
I didn't say I didn't believe you.
I only said I personally have found Topping DACs to be very good. I've had five of them.
RepublicOfTexas69
Active member
Junk is Junk and Topping gear is junk. It amazes me that people buy this crap and then claim it sound fantastic why buy anything more expensive.....like I said Junk is Junk and there is now way this junk sounds like reference gear. Just buy some headphones and stream from your Ipad dude.
This is an interesting discussion! I have never heard any of Topping's gear aside from a DAC of theirs I own (D10s). The DAC is decent, but my Denafrips Ares II is so much more inspiring both in terms of build and sound (both are Chinese companies).
That said, I do think Topping gives great value at its price point. It's not trying to compete at the high end and clearly targets the measurements above all crowd (especially with them sending things to ASR for review).
If you like this amp, great! I do think it's interesting to see a class B amp being made in this year of our lord, 2026.
That said, I do think Topping gives great value at its price point. It's not trying to compete at the high end and clearly targets the measurements above all crowd (especially with them sending things to ASR for review).
If you like this amp, great! I do think it's interesting to see a class B amp being made in this year of our lord, 2026.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Hello newbie!
I agree with your comments.
For me - and I think others as well - the issue with Topping and other of their ilk is not that it is OK for the price. But rather the issue is the people and reviewers claiming it's amazing and huff with stuff like "this $500 piece beats $10,000 high end gear".
It's that attempt to cast it as being much better than it really is in an attempt to feel like they are crapping on higher end gear. Much like those who support the entire clone premise.
I wouldn't buy a Topping because of the Chinese ownership-I wouldn't buy a Volvo for the same reason and those are great cars. No soap box here, that's just my personal preference. I have an iphone so certainly can't say I own no Chinese products-likely none of us can. I know some of the Chinese brands are very good and have decent distribution. It seems though, that for a lot of it you have to just assume its a throw away if there is a problem. What do you do if you need service? At a lower price maybe it doesn't matter but when you start spending a few thousand bucks I would want to understand the product support plan. I don't know much about Topping, but it seems they are selling at a rapid clip-somebody must like them.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Good points.
The other often over-looked issue is safety.
I've had FAR too many venires message me with nightmare stories about their chi-fi gear going up in flames, taking out other gear and more.
Certainly that can happen with ANYTHING, but most of the Chi-Fi isn't even legitimately UL listed.
RepublicOfTexas69
Active member
Neither is gear from the EU. UL is strictly voluntary is not a regulatory body.
That aside I agree on the questionable code and safety standards.
The National Electrical Code (NEC) does not specifically require products to be UL listed, but it does require electrical equipment to be listed and labeled by a qualified Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL). [1]
Key Facts About NEC and Testing Requirements
- NRTL Approval: The NEC (such as in sections like Article 110.3) mandates that equipment be evaluated and certified by an OSHA-approved testing lab, of which Underwriters Laboratories (UL) is only one option. Other accepted labs include CSA, Intertek (ETL), and Eurofins. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- The Role of UL: While not explicitly named as the sole provider, UL is the most common NRTL, and its safety standards are widely used as the benchmark for compliance. [1, 2]
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I believe the EU has its own standard though that companies can apply for. So while it may not be UL standards they do meet some level of minimum standards.
I may be wrong though - but I'm pretty sure there is an EU version.
Absolutely. That is the issue. I occasionally go on Reddit when I am bored and the crap that people spout about the ChiFi gear, $200 TT's and $50 phono preamps is just ridiculous. And people asking for help to buy good system believe this crap. I was telling a guy about my phono preamp journey leading to my $2300 Gold Note and some guy that has a Schiit Skoll F a $400 phono preamp gave me crap saying that there is no proof that spending anymore that $400 on a phono preamp will give you better sound. And he was using a $2K TT.
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Feanor
Active member
- Thread Author
- #30
... But I'm sure you aren't arguing that there's a linear relationship between performance and price, right???
Advance circuit design, more advanced LSI & surface mount components, and robotic PCB assembly have gone a long way toward democratizing audiophilia.
I'm not a big fan of bottom-end components mostly because they aren't structurally or functionally as robust or easy to use.in many cases. OTOH, I'm not a believer that more expensive MUST per force be better.
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Feanor
Active member
- Thread Author
- #31
Yes, unfortunately we live in the disposable society. (Can you get your, e.g. microwave fixed? I had to buy a new dishwasher when the electronic controls failed and no replacement was available.)
I guess you've heard of the "right to repair" movement. The EU is passing laws including the right to self-repair and non-warranty voiding modification. (Those damned Socialists!!!
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I don't think many would suggest that higher price always equals better performance. I do think that "you get what you pay for" is based on generally, not universally true assumptions. There certainly are products that outperform most other products in the same price range and may compete with products that cost much more in a given room and setup. A lot of folks seem to take these exceptions and twist it into the rule. I've heard more than one say "My $5k speaker will meet or beat any $50k speaker out there." I don't think that's true. I'll use my own equipment as an example-I have speakers that I really enjoy-I think they are superb. I'm also confident that if I chose to invest 2 or 3 times what I paid for my speakers I could most certainly find speakers I would like better because the materials would be better, higher grade components, more R&D, etc. That might not be true of every more expensive product but it would be true in enough cases that I'm sure I could find improved performance for the extra money. That doesn't mean my speakers are junk or that great speakers can't be had for less. Its just that the idea that price is meaningless makes no more sense than the idea that price always dictates performance.... But I'm sure you aren't arguing that there's a linear relationship between performance and price, right???
Advance circuit design, more advanced LSI & surface mount components, and robotic PCB assembly have gone a long way toward democratizing audiophilia.
I'm not a big fan of bottom-end components mostly because they aren't structurally or functionally as robust or easy to use.in many case. OTOH, I'm not a believer that more expensive MUST be better per force.
Common sense rears its ugly head.
... But I'm sure you aren't arguing that there's a linear relationship between performance and price, right???
Advance circuit design, more advanced LSI & surface mount components, and robotic PCB assembly have gone a long way toward democratizing audiophilia.
I'm not a big fan of bottom-end components mostly because they aren't structurally or functionally as robust or easy to use.in many case. OTOH, I'm not a believer that more expensive MUST be better per force.
No I am not. There is plenty of gear in the thousands that I heard and I thought, who would buy this stuff. The Marantz Model 30 being one of them. Hearing it compared directly to the KI Ruby Integrated it sounded veiled or muddy and the dealer thought so too. My son and I heard it within 20 to 30 seconds or play on the same speakers and CD player. But, I have not heard any giant killer gear that can compete with my Pass X250 and BAT VK51se combo or my current Mark Levinson 5805 integrated. I will say this about the cheap chifi amps that I have heard including a Dayton Audio DTA-120, they present a wide sound stage with air and transparency. But they are rough around the edges. With detailed speakers they are exposed and hard to listen to.
ggdudeabides
Active member
Hi all. WHY do you continue to respond to this person. We should all know what he is and you should not feed it. IMO, 35 posts, unless you believe you should / would buy cheap chi fi gear for acceptable sound quality, are 34 too many. He is clearly a ASR devotee / disciple. Why give him an audience on this forum? Why bother?
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You asked, so I'll answer, speaking only for me. As my messages would indicate, I don't share his preferences for gear. I thought, however, that an audio forum was an opportunity to exchange ideas, share experiences, maybe open our minds enough to learn something. My system would certainly prove that I'm not an ASR guy, but I don't think that there is anything evil, or dangerous or inherently offensive about Amir-I just have a different view of audio-I'm not fearful of his ideas. I think the last thing an audio forum needs is a self-appointed thought police force-which is exactly our complaint against the ASR forum. If we all lived by one simple rule in these debates-present your ideas, but don't demean people who have different ideas-this forum would immediately improve. Just my opinion, but you asked.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
If you think GG's comment was based on simple different opinions, you've completely missed the entire plot.
Mr Peabody
Well-known member
I've known Bill along time, he's been on forums along time and he has always been consistent. I may not agree with some of his views but he should have the right to express them. Trust me when I say there are other ASR supporters on this forum. One thing should be obvious we all don't agree and we don't have to as long as the discussion remains respectful.
My daughter bought a Dayton Audio HTA-200 and drives kef R3's and it does a good job. I was impressed for a $400 amp. Pretty much her first system. Priority was price and the HTA-200 won on looks and price. As a consumer where the amp was built didn't enter into her equation. I understand some may think it should have I just don't think most don't.
That’s entirely possible. Maybe you can fill me in on exactly what the plot is, but I thought it was about Audio gear which is what I’ve been discussing with this fellow who apparently must be shunned.