My girlfriend is not happy

M

Mordante

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Over the last few years my system has involved a bit, new amps, speakers, streamer etc. About 2 or 3 days ago she told me that she isn't happy with the sound of my system. I find it hard to criticise my own system. Maybe it is a case of Stockholm syndrome. According to my girlfriend it lacks some sparkle some brightness and the lower octaves are too present. To be honest I am not really sure what to do about it. My system is in my signature. Getting different cables might change a nuance or two but will have no major impact. Say pure hypothetically. If I were to sell my speakers and buy something like Magico S3 mkI (the mkII second hand are rare and expensive) or even S5 mkI. Would that help?

My room is about 4m wide and 7meters long, the ceiling would about 2.5meter (pure guess for ceiling height).

I listen to music like Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Leonard Cohen, Antimatter, Anathema, and some stoner-rock/metal, doom metal, post-metal, Einsturzende Neubauten, Wrekmeister Harmonies. My girlfriend prefers UB40, Alanis Morissette, Heather Nova, etcetera. We don't listen to any jazz or blues.

A while back we had a pair of Blumenhofer FS2 mkI in house. I had some problems placing these. But we both preferred the mid/highs of these. Maybe I should have given these a better chance.

So what would you do? Any tips or ideas?
 
just a thought... if the tubes in your pre and power amps have a lot of hours on them, then that is the first thing i would think about. maybe it is time for re-tubing?
 
Mike said:
What about the new Magico A5’s?
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The A5 costs €30k for a pair. Say if I were to change my speakers that is about double the amount I would be able to spend. Say I can sell my X5 for 8k to 10k I guesd. A pair of second hand S3 mkI costs about 12 to 14k. That would be affordable. The A3 is about 15k.
 
aKnyght said:
just a thought... if the tubes in your pre and power amps have a lot of hours on them, then that is the first thing i would think about. maybe it is time for re-tubing?
Click to expand...

Maybe the power tubes. All pre amp and driver tubes have been replaced. Mostly by Psvane except for ECC88 if I remember correctly.

My amps have 4 KT120s per amp. What would KT150 do? I know my amps can handle them but I won't get more power. Or how about KT88, KT90 etcetera.
 
I've found out something. My girlfriend listens for about an hour. But when the amps are cold it takes about half an hour before they start sounding good.

Next I moved speakers closer together. That helped a bit. Now I removed Herbie's Giant Fat Slider. That cleared things up a bit more, made things tighter.

In each corners behind the speakers I have a single Daad 4 bass trap. I would like to experiment with a second Daad4 on top of that one.
 
Sounds like a set up issue. Have you selected your listening position to achieve the smoothest bass? Can be done by ear, but is best done by measurement IMO.
 
I wouldn't immediately jump to new speakers as the best solution. While it may turn out to be the case, it's not entirely clear to me that what your girlfriend is objecting to is primarily a result of the speakers or something that could only be addressed by changing the speakers. After all, trying out and buying new speakers is pretty expensive and requires more effort than doing some other initial experimentation or trying smaller components (electronics), which could help narrow things down.

Three things I can think of that you could try relatively inexpensively, where even if it turns out not to address the problem could help you figure out the best next step:

1. If the speakers are not toed-in with the tweeters on-axis with the listener's ears, you might try that.

2. The Aurender A10 uses the AKM4490, and your girlfriend may prefer something like an ESS-based DAC instead—maybe you can borrow one or get an inexpensive used one just to see if the general change in tonal balance appeals to her before picking up a better quality ESS-based DAC. Having two DACs in the system also means you could switch back to the A10's internal DAC if that's your personal preference.

3. If it really is just too much bass and lack of treble energy, adding some PEQ or room correction could "fix" everything without changing any of your hardware components. If the issue is mostly a function of the room (as hinted by repositioning the speakers), new speakers will still be influenced in the same way and even harder to evaluate outside of your own room.
 
The room is the most overlooked component. Had a friend who worked in a high end shop up North and for about a 6 year period, I did deliveries and installs with him. I can't tell how how many decent pairs of speakers with good equipment sounded like crap since the room was never taken into account. People would tend to buy what was recommended in magazines without really doing their own homework as to what might work better. If you have a smart phone, you can get an App - e.g. https://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/black-friday-2019.html A microphone for it (phone or tablet) that won't break the bank can be found at places like - https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...-for-tablets-iphone-ipad-and-android--390-810 or if you prefer the PC route, Room EQ Wizard is free - http://www.roomeqwizard.com/ and you can get a USB mic for the PC - as suggested in the prior link.
 
Agree about room being a HUGE FACTOR.

BEFORE you go out and spend tons of money on speakers or other equipment you should try other (cheaper) options. I can think of two things to try.
1. Move the speakers and seating position and find the best possible position. Try the sumiko, cardas, vsndersteen, or any other methods.
2. Once you have the best location possible, then try out digital room correction.

Item 1 will only cost you time. Item 2, depending on your existing equipment and ability to use room correction software, may also cost you time only.

You can spend thousands on equipment, cables, etc. and not be to achieve what 1 and 2 above can give you for very little money spent.

PS. One more thought: what about having a virtual visit to your home by an audio expert who could give you good advice? I am thinking of Jim Smith who posts on this site. Look him up!
 
MPW said:
Sounds like a set up issue. Have you selected your listening position to achieve the smoothest bass? Can be done by ear, but is best done by measurement IMO.
Click to expand...

Any tips and or ideas how to do those measurement?
 
Mordante said:
Maybe the power tubes. All pre amp and driver tubes have been replaced. Mostly by Psvane except for ECC88 if I remember correctly.

My amps have 4 KT120s per amp. What would KT150 do? I know my amps can handle them but I won't get more power. Or how about KT88, KT90 etcetera.
Click to expand...

KT150 appear to be more extended in both treble and bass. However, if the amp is not built around these tubes, a switch may not be worth it. A friend has CAT JL7 mono blocks and ordered them with KT150. Yet it turns out the amps sound better with KT120 tubes around which they are designed. My own Octave RE320 is designed around the KT150 tubes, so that is what I am going with and it sounds excellent. Your Octave MRE 130 mono blocks may not fare so well with KT150, or perhaps they do. You could try it, but I would follow the other options suggested first, starting with room and speaker set-up. And yes, do make sure your KT120 power tubes have not degraded.

I have spent perhaps most of my audiophile effort on my room, or at least as much as on components, and I prefer to tweak tonal balance by changes in room acoustics (that can include carpeting) and speaker toe in/out, i.e. all plainly on an acoustic basis. Stay away from tweaking tonal balance with cables, that's an exquisitely bad idea in my view, since any deviation from neutral will inevitably reduce resolution.
 
I wouldn't change the speakers.
Raidho with treble problems? :skeptical:


I would bet on amplification and then on cables, especially power cables.


But first of all: remove the power distributor and listen ...
 
I re-read your first post again vs your system signature. The Raidho speakers and similar designs, always suffer from the same problems - a disconnected, from an integration standpoint, tweeter (it’s design and shape is inherently different from the rest of the speaker) and a overblown mid-bass. I’m not saying the tweeter is bad, it’s not, but ribbon’s are difficult to properly integrate with the rest of the speaker.

The Raidho voicing, as well as another well known brand, is really designed for classical. When you play other types of music, you really notice the weaknesses. But when you play classical, they sound glorious. That Cello is rich and deep. The stand up bass in Jazz? Bloated. I honestly think a more balanced, coherent speaker would be the way to go IMO. The S3’s or S5’s would be excellent and suitable for all genres.

I don’t know your market, but you may want to consider Vivid as well. Even a pair of G2 S1’s or G3 S1’s since buying new seems out of the question for you.

This is just my opinion of course. YMMV.
 
Mike said:
I re-read your first post again vs your system signature. The Raidho speakers and similar designs, always suffer from the same problems - a disconnected, from an integration standpoint, tweeter (it’s design and shape is inherently different from the rest of the speaker) and a overblown mid-bass. I’m not saying the tweeter is bad, it’s not, but ribbon’s are difficult to properly integrate with the rest of the speaker.

The Raidho voicing, as well as another well known brand, is really designed for classical. When you play other types of music, you really notice the weaknesses. But when you play classical, they sound glorious. That Cello is rich and deep. The stand up bass in Jazz? Bloated. I honestly think a more balanced, coherent speaker would be the way to go IMO. The S3’s or S5’s would be excellent and suitable for all genres.

I don’t know your market, but you may want to consider Vivid as well. Even a pair of G2 S1’s or G3 S1’s since buying new seems out of the question for you.

This is just my opinion of course. YMMV.
Click to expand...

I moved from C1.1's to S5mk2 and am never looking back - while it was a costly upgrade it was definately worth it. I will say the magicos don't have the beauty that ribbons project but they do everything else so well that you have a cohesive sound with detail/resolution and timbre. pair with some class a amps (such as your octave) and you'll probably have a killer system.

In my experience, for that ribbon magic you probably gotta spend big bucks to out do the raidho: mbl101 emk2 was like a best of both worlds for me in a magico strengths meets raidho strengths way, zellatons were fantastic with that beautiful tone, and alsyvox was like listening to a very large raidho ribbon. yes none of these are really pure ribbon designs but to my ears they capture that magic that ribbons have. all have better bass integration than the c1.1. for what it's worth, i loved that speaker and still remember it fondly - there is just better out there for the price :)
 
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