MSB Select II

Kingrex said:
Interesting. Was the experience, play a song via roon, then play same song via Qobuz application? How did you analyze the playback.
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it's very easy to switch back and forth between Roon and TAS music management systems to A/B tracks with the Taiko Extreme.

and Quboz is a music streaming service inside Roon or TAS. you see the Quboz in both systems. maybe Quboz has it's own playback program, but i've not tried it or heard of anyone using it.
 
I had JRiver loaded to my machine today. The most brief listen left me wondering if I could tell JRiver from HQ Player 4. I heard more of a positive shift changing my USB cable than the playback software.
 
Hi Folks,

I'm a happy owner of the MSB Select II w/ dual mono power bases and and MSB S202 amp (the latter I purchased from Mike). I run Roon via a remote qnap server that connects via fiber to an etherregen w/ an external clock. From there, I utilize a Gobel ethernet cable to connect the etherregen to the Select's Network Renderer V2 card. I'm thrilled with the sound quality, noise floor, etc. However, after reading posts herein, I can't help but wonder whether the quality of my playback would be materially improved by utilizing an audiophile server (Taiko Extreme, Aurender, etc)? However, that comes with a sizable investment, so in the spirit of not having to start completely over, I'm wondering whether the "elite" audiophile servers output interfaces are exclusively USB or if they also support streaming that would allow me to continue using my Gobel's ethernet cable and Network Renderer Module? What I'm trying to assess is the "real cost" of switching to an audiophile server which may include the additive cost of a new MSB USB module, reference USB Cable, reference power cord, isolation platform, etc...

Separately, I'm likely one of the few who's using an MSB Select as a preamplifier for both my DAC as well as my phono stage. Out of curiosity, have others besides Ken had the opportunity to compare the sonic quality of using the Select's preamp modules to that of a separate reference preamplifier? If so, I'd appreciate your relaying your experience.

Thanks in advance,
Battles
 
Battles said:
Hi Folks,

I'm a happy owner of the MSB Select II w/ dual mono power bases and and MSB S202 amp (the latter I purchased from Mike). I run Roon via a remote qnap server that connects via fiber to an etherregen w/ an external clock. From there, I utilize a Gobel ethernet cable to connect the etherregen to the Select's Network Renderer V2 card. I'm thrilled with the sound quality, noise floor, etc. However, after reading posts herein, I can't help but wonder whether the quality of my playback would be materially improved by utilizing an audiophile server (Taiko Extreme, Aurender, etc)? However, that comes with a sizable investment, so in the spirit of not having to start completely over, I'm wondering whether the "elite" audiophile servers output interfaces are exclusively USB or if they also support streaming that would allow me to continue using my Gobel's ethernet cable and Network Renderer Module? What I'm trying to assess is the "real cost" of switching to an audiophile server which may include the additive cost of a new MSB USB module, reference USB Cable, reference power cord, isolation platform, etc...

Separately, I'm likely one of the few who's using an MSB Select as a preamplifier for both my DAC as well as my phono stage. Out of curiosity, have others besides Ken had the opportunity to compare the sonic quality of using the Select's preamp modules to that of a separate reference preamplifier? If so, I'd appreciate your relaying your experience.

Thanks in advance,
Battles
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hi Battles,

last question first; yes; i have directly compared my MSB Select II passive pre direct into my darTZeel 468 mono blocks....................to my spendy battery powered darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp into my dart 468 mono blocks. the darTZeel is a little better, a clear small step up. more meat on the bones, slightly more scale and micro-dynamics. but i have 4 turntables, and three RTR tape decks. and multiple phono preamps. and the tt's are all fairly high level and the tape decks are tip top level. if i was digital only there would be no question it would be the MSB only. i would not hesitate to use the MSB for the preamp for my phono stage. it plays near the same level as my big boy dart pre.

but note that my preamp is $50k, and it might be as good as anything out there at any price. so it takes alot to better the MSB passive. and my dart pre has the advantage of synergy with the dart amps.

as far as USB and top level servers; it seems that USB is getting the most development attention. and is able to do the highest rez formats. it's the least compromised approach. recently Taiko added their own USB card to their Extreme and it did jump the performance up a notch. i use the MSB Pro USB interface and it also was a step up over standard USB. i have the MSB Renderer V2 which at the time was a step up; but USB now has a few notches of advantage. USB is best for streaming. if you do get the Taiko; the TAS, Taiko Audio System, is a better sounding file/streaming package than Roon. but you don't have to give up Roon, you can choose.

the great thing about MSB is the modularity. so you are covered in any case for the future.

as far as your Renderer V2, keep it, and add the Pro USB; it's not that much money in the context of your digital investment. and your Gobel Ethernet cable can still be used in your LAN to good advantage even if it's not your dac <-> server cable.
 
Emile has announced that together with his new Switch they are going to present a new network card. Maybe this can change things.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
hi Battles,

last question first; yes; i have directly compared my MSB Select II passive pre direct into my darTZeel 468 mono blocks....................to my spendy battery powered darTZeel NHB-18NS preamp into my dart 468 mono blocks. the darTZeel is a little better, a clear small step up. more meat on the bones, slightly more scale and micro-dynamics. but i have 4 turntables, and three RTR tape decks. and multiple phono preamps. and the tt's are all fairly high level and the tape decks are tip top level. if i was digital only there would be no question it would be the MSB only. i would not hesitate to use the MSB for the preamp for my phono stage. it plays near the same level as my big boy dart pre.

but note that my preamp is $50k, and it might be as good as anything out there at any price. so it takes alot to better the MSB passive. and my dart pre has the advantage of synergy with the dart amps.

as far as USB and top level servers; it seems that USB is getting the most development attention. and is able to do the highest rez formats. it's the least compromised approach. recently Taiko added their own USB card to their Extreme and it did jump the performance up a notch. i use the MSB Pro USB interface and it also was a step up over standard USB. i have the MSB Renderer V2 which at the time was a step up; but USB now has a few notches of advantage. USB is best for streaming. if you do get the Taiko; the TAS, Taiko Audio System, is a better sounding file/streaming package than Roon. but you don't have to give up Roon, you can choose.

the great thing about MSB is the modularity. so you are covered in any case for the future.

as far as your Renderer V2, keep it, and add the Pro USB; it's not that much money in the context of your digital investment. and your Gobel Ethernet cable can still be used in your LAN to good advantage even if it's not your dac <-> server cable.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. As always, I appreciate your help and thoughtful answers. I think for now, I'm be happy with my Select serving as both a preamp and DAC. Plus, at this juncture, I only have room for one more component, and my instinct is that's best invested in a music server vs. a preamp. To this end, for those who've heard both, I would enjoy hearing their comparison of the Taiko Extreme and Aurender N30.

Much appreciated!
 
Hi Battles,

I will chime in with a perspective regarding regarding the Aurender N30 and the Taiko Extreme. To be fully transparent, I do not own either. However, I did have the opportunity to hear both in the same system during a 3 or so hour session.

The system consisted of both the Taiko Extreme and the Aurender N30. The DAC was the MSB Select II with Boulder Pre and Power Amps driving a pair of Vivíd G1 Spirits.

In this particular system, to my ears, my preference was with the Aurender N30. Why? I thought the presentation with the Aurender had better pace , rhythm and realism. Violin strings sound had a wonderful texture that was not present in the Taiko. Piano notes were more realistic. And, I felt the Taiko had a little bit of grain that was not present in the N30’s presentation. Was this a huge problem? No, but doing a back to back listening of the same music highlighted the differences to me.

Also, this may/may not be important to you but the Aurender seemed easier to use and it has the large screen with album art. We had some challenges getting the Taiko and Roon to work. The Aurender operation was flawless.

Lastly, this is my perspective as a result of a single session. Clearly, both are top notch machines.
 
Ritmo said:
Hi Battles,

I will chime in with a perspective regarding regarding the Aurender N30 and the Taiko Extreme. To be fully transparent, I do not own either. However, I did have the opportunity to hear both in the same system during a 3 or so hour session.

The system consisted of both the Taiko Extreme and the Aurender N30. The DAC was the MSB Select II with Boulder Pre and Power Amps driving a pair of Vivíd G1 Spirits.

In this particular system, to my ears, my preference was with the Aurender N30. Why? I thought the presentation with the Aurender had better pace , rhythm and realism. Violin strings sound had a wonderful texture that was not present in the Taiko. Piano notes were more realistic. And, I felt the Taiko had a little bit of grain that was not present in the N30’s presentation. Was this a huge problem? No, but doing a back to back listening of the same music highlighted the differences to me.

Also, this may/may not be important to you but the Aurender seemed easier to use and it has the large screen with album art. We had some challenges getting the Taiko and Roon to work. The Aurender operation was flawless.

Lastly, this is my perspective as a result of a single session. Clearly, both are top notch machines.
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Hi Mike…Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Clearly having had the opportunity to demo both servers in the same room and with identical hardware back to back makes your assessment in credibly helpful. Most postings I’ve read on the web presume the Taiko would continue to reign high, but according to your ears, this doesn’t appear to the be case nor is one server in a different league than that of the other. By any chance have you had an opportunity to compare the sonic quality of the N30 to the N20 on this system or others? I’ve heard the N20 offers 95% of the performance of the N30 but at half the price. Thx again
 
Ritmo said:
Hi Battles,

I will chime in with a perspective regarding regarding the Aurender N30 and the Taiko Extreme. To be fully transparent, I do not own either. However, I did have the opportunity to hear both in the same system during a 3 or so hour session.

The system consisted of both the Taiko Extreme and the Aurender N30. The DAC was the MSB Select II with Boulder Pre and Power Amps driving a pair of Vivíd G1 Spirits.

In this particular system, to my ears, my preference was with the Aurender N30. Why? I thought the presentation with the Aurender had better pace , rhythm and realism. Violin strings sound had a wonderful texture that was not present in the Taiko. Piano notes were more realistic. And, I felt the Taiko had a little bit of grain that was not present in the N30’s presentation. Was this a huge problem? No, but doing a back to back listening of the same music highlighted the differences to me.

Also, this may/may not be important to you but the Aurender seemed easier to use and it has the large screen with album art. We had some challenges getting the Taiko and Roon to work. The Aurender operation was flawless.

Lastly, this is my perspective as a result of a single session. Clearly, both are top notch machines.
Click to expand...

Like you I compared the Taiko Extreme to the Aurrender and preferred the Aurrender. After all of the hyperbole surrounding the Taiko I was stunned. This was using the Taiko software not Roon.

It is a stretch to call the Taiko interface beta level. It has so far to go to get close to the UI of either Roon or Aurrender.
 
Love the Aurender Conductor (but 90% of my listening is Tidal/Qobuz rather than files on HDD) ... Also, love the play/pause buttons on Aurender and the way volume can fade out/fade in if one so chooses, which makes stopping/starting in the middle of a cut to take a call much more pleasant. Really glad to hear that some have found the Aurender not to be at a sonic disadvantage.
 
Ritmo said:
Hi Battles,

I will chime in with a perspective regarding regarding the Aurender N30 and the Taiko Extreme. To be fully transparent, I do not own either. However, I did have the opportunity to hear both in the same system during a 3 or so hour session.

The system consisted of both the Taiko Extreme and the Aurender N30. The DAC was the MSB Select II with Boulder Pre and Power Amps driving a pair of Vivíd G1 Spirits.

In this particular system, to my ears, my preference was with the Aurender N30. Why? I thought the presentation with the Aurender had better pace , rhythm and realism. Violin strings sound had a wonderful texture that was not present in the Taiko. Piano notes were more realistic. And, I felt the Taiko had a little bit of grain that was not present in the N30’s presentation. Was this a huge problem? No, but doing a back to back listening of the same music highlighted the differences to me.

Also, this may/may not be important to you but the Aurender seemed easier to use and it has the large screen with album art. We had some challenges getting the Taiko and Roon to work. The Aurender operation was flawless.

Lastly, this is my perspective as a result of a single session. Clearly, both are top notch machines.
Click to expand...

can you provide some details about this compare? how long ago? was it at a dealer? do they represent both products? which server was resident? which was the visitor? if it was hard to get Roon to work it's logical the Taiko was the visitor.

was this files? streaming? USB? Ethernet? which interface was used on the MSB Select II? Pro USB? Renderer v2? did the Taiko have the new USB card? i'm assuming there was no listening to the TAS music management system. was streaming Tidal only? Quboz only? or both? MQA?

assuming the same power cord and Ethernet or USB cable was used for both?

shelf situation the same for both?

just trying to understand as set-up with a server is pretty critical. most people involve Taiko remoting into their network for optimal set-up.

to be clear; your comments stand fine on their own, but any details help me to understand better.
 
Mike,

The listening sessions was held within the last 45 days or so. It was held at a dealer that represents and sells both brands. There was no bias of one brand vs the other.

The process was pretty straightforward. We listened to the same set of songs on both devices. The source was Qobuz. I can’t recall the brand of the cables used. The connection to the Select II was made via USB; once we finished with the Taiko, we disconnected it and used that same USB cable for the Aurender. All components were set on a Critical Mass rack.

The Taiko had recently been upgraded with the new USB board and had the latest software level; don’t know the version but was discussed at the dealer.

I visited this dealer previously, and as you mentioned, a Taiko representative was on the phone and was making some configuration changes by remoting into the Extreme. I was glad to see their engagement with their product to ensure proper setup.

Thx!
 
Thanks Mike and Jim for your comments on your head-to-head shootout of the Taiko Extreme and the Aurender N30SA. Using both servers on the MSB Select DAC with Pro USB and identical components and cables makes this a very important comparison, which I have not seen before. I look forward to doing the shootout myself.

Best,
Ken
 
Ritmo said:
Mike,

The listening sessions was held within the last 45 days or so. It was held at a dealer that represents and sells both brands. There was no bias of one brand vs the other.

The process was pretty straightforward. We listened to the same set of songs on both devices. The source was Qobuz. I can’t recall the brand of the cables used. The connection to the Select II was made via USB; once we finished with the Taiko, we disconnected it and used that same USB cable for the Aurender. All components were set on a Critical Mass rack.

The Taiko had recently been upgraded with the new USB board and had the latest software level; don’t know the version but was discussed at the dealer.

I visited this dealer previously, and as you mentioned, a Taiko representative was on the phone and was making some configuration changes by remoting into the Extreme. I was glad to see their engagement with their product to ensure proper setup.

Thx!
Click to expand...

Yep, as Mike noted it was almost exactly 4 weeks ago. All in all a very straight forward comparison If there was any bias going in I would have to say I in the past I was never a fan of Aurrender.
 
Kingsrule said:
It looks like what I read about Optimized was incorrect. Why isn't the above in the owners manual and on the MSB website? And why doesn't MSB give this info to the MSB reviewers? (If they do, my apologies but it would be incumbent on them to make sure Optimized vs. Native is understood and reported correctly)
Click to expand...

Hello Fellow MSB Owners:

It's been a while, but this was one of the first places I came to get info about MSB. It's still my favorite piece(s), my favorite manufacturer, and dare I say Michael is my favorite dealer :O

Regarding the above question, I researched this last year, and based on all I could find, including a somewhat generalized response from MSB, I concluded "Optimized" was an internal PCM conversion. But now having read @DSMSB here, I like his elaboration. In retrospect, I think the answer is MSB doesn't want us to know exactly what's going on, but just to have the options.

In my system, Native DSD sounds great, but PCM is just fabulous. Being a lover of classical music, with so many Asian sources invested in DSD, DSD is something I continue to use heavily. The few quad DSD I have sound fantastic. One thing I haven't done is compare DSD256 and DXD, but I suspect the MSB would favor DXD.

EDIT: now for the real reason I'm here, Aurender v. Taiko. Very interesting! I read the manufacturer write-up on the N30SA, and they've done some very cool engineering. I like the less bulky, two-chassis configuration. The only downside I see is paying for things I don't need. I think the real breakthrough for MSB owners would be if someone could make a server expansion card with the proprietary ISL interface, ridding us of the universal interface altogether.
 
It sounds like Roon was used on the Taiko. However, the Taiko player is reported to sound much batter than Roon. Innuous now has their own player as well and it is also supposed to sound much batter than Roon. Aurender has always had their own app.
 
Backpacker said:
It sounds like Roon was used on the Taiko. However, the Taiko player is reported to sound much batter than Roon. Innuous now has their own player as well and it is also supposed to sound much batter than Roon. Aurender has always had their own app.
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See post #150 for clarification.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Backpacker said:
It sounds like Roon was used on the Taiko. However, the Taiko player is reported to sound much batter than Roon. Innuous now has their own player as well and it is also supposed to sound much batter than Roon. Aurender has always had their own app.
Click to expand...

Nope, although I prefer to use Roon it was not used in this comparison.
 
Hi Mike Lavigne,

I always wanted to ask you, what do you consider to be the anchor component of your system? In other words, if you could keep only one component, which one would you choose to build a new system around?

Thanks,
Ken
 
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