MSB Select DAC

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wisnon said:
You suspect wrong…and I have 2 Trinity Dac owning pals to back me up who play theirs most everyday.

I also have another NYC Pal who has a upgraded Platinum MSB Dac and TWO Big7 Lampis (one is a HeadDac) and will sell one and get a Golden Gate HeadDac. I myself spent a day at his place last year comparing 4 of his Dacs…Lampi B7, the said MSB that retailed at $35K , the Hugo and the PSA Direct Stream.
The Lampi and the MSB were close. Since then he sent back that B7 for a complete overhaul and bought the first B7 HeadDac.
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Relax Norman. Your Lampi is peachy. It sounds to me like a well designed DHT; nothing more nothing less. Sometimes I want more than what a DHT does with regard to SNR, frequency range, etc. Sometimes I don't want to go chasing for a new plate impedance every time I want to go outside the mid range. The fact that many (including Trinity and MSB users) are impressed with the linearity of a DHT in a given tube's frequency range and it's natural second harmonic distortion is no surprise to me (especially if some of those folks are not familiar with a well engineered DHT's sound to start). It is truly romantic. It is also the origin of my silly tag line about "preferring dos harmonics when I drink nonlinear." I love them.

My only point, and I think the feeling of many after a while with DHT's, is they fall a bit out of love when they realize what's missing. I have every intention of adding DHT's to my dac mix (as my link in post #56 above stated 2 years ago) because they are so pleasant, but I will always want more. Lastly, I respect your friends views--that's all fine, but they have no impact on my point one way or the other. This is a subjective thing.
 
I am completely relaxed, but these pals are VERY experienced audiophile. One runs arguably the 3rd biggest show in the world and the other has 2 of the finest reference sytems I have heard and I have had private demos at the HQs of some of the biggest names in high end audio.

My pals know from DHT…believe me.

I also enjoy what I have an am not threatened in any way, so dont sweat it.

You are free to want what you want, but you are passing blind judement here. I am just clearing up an apparent misconception you seem to have.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Relax Norman. Your Lampi is peachy. It sounds to me like a well designed DHT; nothing more nothing less. Sometimes I want more than what a DHT does with regard to SNR, frequency range, etc. Sometimes I don't want to go chasing for a new plate impedance every time I want to go outside the mid range. The fact that many (including Trinity and MSB users) are impressed with the linearity of a DHT in a given tube's frequency range and it's natural second harmonic distortion is no surprise to me (especially if some of those folks are not familiar with a well engineered DHT's sound to start). It is truly romantic. It is also the origin of my silly tag line about "preferring dos harmonics when I drink nonlinear." I love them.

My only point, and I think the feeling of many after a while with DHT's, is they fall a bit out of love when they realize what's missing. I have every intention of adding DHT's to my dac mix (as my link in post #56 above stated 2 years ago) because they are so pleasant, but I will always want more. Lastly, I respect your friends views--that's all fine, but they have no impact on my point one way or the other. This is a subjective thing.
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Is this based on your listening at the hifi show, or a proper audition - because I found the B7 beats Trinity and Esoteric K01 on SS characteristics - bass, speed, slam, and detail, and I listen mostly to orchestral, not vocal midrange like Diana Krall (though I do listen to opera). Your description of why Lampi guys like Lampi is totally incorrect, and is based mainly on 300b type valves, not 101d, for example. In fact you are generalizing valves like Jadis rather than being specific about Lampi
 
The only DHT Dac I can think of apart from Lampi is the Allnic which uses ONLY the small 3A5 tubes. I would not equate Allnic user opinion with Lampi as they have nothing to do with each other. Most Lampi DHT Dac owners NEVER roll tubes.
Anyway, its your right to feel the way you do Paul, even if divorced from reality. LoL
 
It's fair for him to have his opinion provided it's based on a proper audition. Problem is I think it's based on his hifi show experience, so flexible audio, please confirm
 
bonzo said:
It's fair for him to have his opinion provided it's based on a proper audition. Problem is I think it's based on his hifi show experience, so flexible audio, please confirm
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So a proper audition is when you agree with the results?
 
wisnon said:
I am completely relaxed, but these pals are VERY experienced audiophile. One runs arguably the 3rd biggest show in the world and the other has 2 of the finest reference sytems I have heard and I have had private demos at the HQs of some of the biggest names in high end audio.

My pals know from DHT…believe me.

I also enjoy what I have an am not threatened in any way, so dont sweat it.

You are free to want what you want, but you are passing blind judement here. I am just clearing up an apparent misconception you seem to have.
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Norman what do you mean I am passing blind judgment? How could you possibly make that statement. I just said I have seen people not familiar with DHT's go gaga for a while until they eventually go back to a more full range presentation and want more. Me included. I was not talking about your friends. You have told me before Adam runs a big show; he raves about the product and I have no doubt he loves his Lampi (as he should) and I am sure your other friends do as well.

I am relating to my experiences and you are relating yours. I am not passing blind judgment. I gottta say though, I continue to be amazed by your Lampi zealotry whether it be on this or any of the many other forums where you incessantly challenge anyone who questions Lampi's absolute sonic superiority. It's great to be happy with a product but your inability to comprehend that Lampi's are not the be all and end all of the audio world seems unnatural. At this level it is largely subjective. When you do things such as argue against a widely understood concept like the impact of plate impedance variation on frequency range as if it doesn't exist just because it's a Lampi.....C'mon man!!! Why do people roll tubes??? Because this variation and the level of second harmonic distortion create SQ deltas that people like based on the impedance matching of there particular system and/or tastes. Some people like you and your friends like this and some people like me and my friends do too; just not all the time. It's not blind judgment, its how we feel.
 
bonzo said:
Is this based on your listening at the hifi show, or a proper audition - because I found the B7 beats Trinity and Esoteric K01 on SS characteristics - bass, speed, slam, and detail, and I listen mostly to orchestral, not vocal midrange like Diana Krall (though I do listen to opera). Your description of why Lampi guys like Lampi is totally incorrect, and is based mainly on 300b type valves, not 101d, for example. In fact you are generalizing valves like Jadis rather than being specific about Lampi
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I am not a Lampi expert like you guys. I spent a good part of the day at Axpona listening to both the B-7 and the GG. As many on this forum know I was keenly interested in the Lampi and this was my primary reason for attending the show. It was not under ideal conditions. I would never use this venue to pick the Lampi over the Allinic or vice versa, but the conditions were more than adequate for me to recognize the wonderful and familiar sound of DHT euphonics. I adore them. I also know and understand their limitations.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
I am not a Lampi expert like you guys. I spent a good part of the day at Axpona listening to both the B-7 and the GG. It was not under ideal conditions. I would never use this venue to pick the Lampi over the Allinic or vice versa, but the conditions were more than adequate for me to recognize the wonderful and familiar sound of DHT euphonics. I adore them. I also know and understand their limitations.
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Interesting. Like I said in my review, it's like adding a top notch SET amp to your system. For some, that's nirvana, for others it's "too colored". I notice this right away when I switch back to my Lumin or T+A. It doesn't make it right or wrong, just a different delivery.

What was it about vinyl that you loved so much? A year ago I don't think vinyl was seriously on your radar. Today it might be front and center, no?
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Norman what do you mean I am passing blind judgment? How could you possibly make that statement. I just said I have seen people not familiar with DHT's go gaga for a while until they eventually go back to a more full range presentation and want more. Me included. I was not talking about your friends. You have told me before Adam runs a big show; he raves about the product and I have no doubt he loves his Lampi (as he should) and I am sure your other friends do as well.

I am relating to my experiences and you are relating yours. I am not passing blind judgment. I gottta say though, I continue to be amazed by your Lampi zealotry whether it be on this or any of the many other forums where you incessantly challenge anyone who questions Lampi's absolute sonic superiority. It's great to be happy with a product but your inability to comprehend that Lampi's are not the be all and end all of the audio world seems unnatural. At this level it is largely subjective. When you do things such as argue against a widely understood concept like the impact of plate impedance variation on frequency range as if it doesn't exist just because it's a Lampi.....C'mon man!!! Why do people roll tubes??? Because this variation and the level of second harmonic distortion create SQ deltas that people like based on the impedance matching of there particular system and/or tastes. Some people like you and your friends like this and some people like me and my friends do too; just not all the time. It's not blind judgment, its how we feel.
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You seem to think DHTs in amps correspond directly to the implementation in Dacs. My experience is different.
Also the rectis have a big impact, so its not all about the DHT output tubes.

I already said you are free to FEEL how you wish, but you pass judgement on a piece at a show on the opening day when the speakers had issues? Did you listen to speakers or to the electronics then?
I think you are generalizing too much.

The feedback was very different on the following days when the speakers were set to prime time. Stuff happens at shows, so its to be expected that you catch a bad performance now and again.

As for my liking Lampi gear, so what? I like what I like and evidently, other people who gave it a fair shake do too. I am definitely no alone in this.

You seem very protective of Solution gear and its not really to my taste. No biggie. It does not mean they dont make good stuff that pleases their intended market. No one is the be-all, end-all in Audio, not even Goldmund/FM Acoustics whose gear is uber expensive.

In the end, we can agree to disagree. You say tomato, I say potato and wht a wonderful world this is. LoL
 
wisnon said:
The only DHT Dac I can think of apart from Lampi is the Allnic which uses ONLY the small 3A5 tubes. I would not equate Allnic user opinion with Lampi as they have nothing to do with each other. Most Lampi DHT Dac owners NEVER roll tubes.
Anyway, its your right to feel the way you do Paul, even if divorced from reality. LoL
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wisnon said:
You seem to think DHTs in amps correspond directly to the implementation in Dacs. My experience is different.
Also the rectis have a big impact, so its not all about the DHT output tubes.

I already said you are free to FEEL how you wish, but you pass judgement on a piece at a show on the opening day when the speakers had issues? Did you listen to speakers or to the electronics then?
I think you are generalizing too much.
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Umm no Norman, you said I am free to feel the way I do and then made it clear I am divorced from reality and laughed out loud at me ....that is a very different thing. You should be more careful.
 
Norman - you have a point. You can drastically change the sound by rolling output tubes and especially rectifiers. For some, that's great and they love the challenge. For others, it's a PITA.

My only wish with Lampi (and you know I'm a huge huge fan) is they get their product schemes and product roll outs down. Nobody wants to buy an expensive product only to have it outdated in 30 days because Lukasz heard from a guy, who heard from another guy, that this new cap is great.

Put four walls around a model and live with it for at least a year - for the sake of the purchaser.

I know the constant evolving of the product is a real attraction to some, but for the would be buyer, trying to time the "when" to buy (because of the constant changes) is like trying to catch a falling knife.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge huge fan. I own the GG and have 211's on the way. Fred and Rob are awesome. I'm just giving my two cents of business advice.

Lampi Bronze, Silver and Gold has a nice ring to it.

Wait a minute...isn't this an MSB thread? Damn...all threads seem to turn to Lampi talk. [emoji48]
 
Mike said:
Interesting. Like I said in my review, it's like adding a top notch SET amp to your system. For some, that's nirvana, for others it's "too colored". I notice this right away when I switch back to my Lumin or T+A. It doesn't make it right or wrong, just a different delivery.

What was it about vinyl that you loved so much? A year ago I don't think vinyl was seriously on your radar. Today it might be front and center, no?
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True Mike, you are observant. As I have said else where, as simple as I can put things it really comes down to vinyl being more real to me and at the same time more relaxing. Maybe its a time domain thing. Frankly, DHT does a bit of the same thing for me but at the expense of noise, frequency range, and coloration (depending on the tubes). I want a super-quiet, full range, neutral option as my baseline. That's why I went for the Arc Ref 10 Phono (with a SS first gain stage and 6922's) over the Allnic H5000 DHT phono, and I went with Nordost wires over others. Like I have tried to say before, IMO this is very personal and not about what's best. I suppose you could argue I should have done the Soulution 750 phono given my baseline goals but I felt that was a little too much SS for my taste. The Ref 10 is very neutral, quiet and full range to my ears, but has a bit of the second harmonic goodness.
 
If the REF10 phono is anything like the REF10 preamp, you're in for a real treat.

I'll be very interested to see what table you end up with. Of course my vote is for the Kronos! [emoji106]
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Continuing to make progress.....slowly but surely. Music won't be for a while. Getting room designed by Nyal at Acoustic Frontiers. Picking a contractor. Ordered new Ascona. Bought a lightly used MSB Diamond Dac IV Plus with Galaxy and nice upgrade path. Thanks for asking.
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Mike said:
If the REF10 phono is anything like the REF10 preamp, you're in for a real treat.

I'll be very interested to see what table you end up with. Of course my vote is for the Kronos! [emoji106]
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Sorry Mike, but as I mentioned above I did the Ascona. I think Gunther does a real nice job of engineering for sound absorption and I like a mass loaded design for dynamics. It is very very quiet and neutral which is the goal right now. Again, thats just me. I gotta start some where. No doubt the Kronos is phenomenal.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Sorry Mike, but as I mentioned above I did the Ascona. I think Gunther does a real nice job of engineering for sound absorption and I like a mass loaded design for dynamics. It is very very quiet and neutral which is the goal right now. Again, thats just me. I gotta start some where. No doubt the Kronos is phenomenal.
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I must have missed this or forgotten! Congrats. Now let's start spinning some vinyl.
 
Mike said:
Wait a minute...isn't this an MSB thread? Damn...all threads seem to turn to Lampi talk. [emoji48]
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Mike
It hasn't really been about the MSB Select DAC since the first page!! That was about 65 post ago.
 
MSB= 2015 Hennessey Venom GT.
Lampizator Balanced Golden Gate= 1935 Duesenberg Convertible SJ Supercharge La Grande Dual-Cowl Phaeton

Just my reading thoughts....
 
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