MSB Select DAC

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How about Magico? :)

They sold almost 50 pair of speakers at $129,000 to buyers who had not heard them. I suspect with the billions of people on this planet that type of business might work for a few vendors.
 
That is shocking. Who would have dreamt there are 47 people in the world who did not buy the DHT DAC "who's name we shall not mention".
 
bonzo said:
I had asked you this in April, in case you think I am reacting post your negative comment on Lampi

http://audioshark.org/lampizator-186/lampizator-golden-gate-7223-post-123239.html#post123239

Your reply

http://audioshark.org/lampizator-186/lampizator-golden-gate-7223-page6.html#post123242
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Bonzo, I answered your question regarding my show experience in post #68 above. I will repeat it here to help you.

I spent a good part of the day at Axpona listening to both the B-7 and the GG. As many on this forum know I was keenly interested in the Lampi and this was my primary reason for attending the show. It was not under ideal conditions. I would never use this venue to pick the Lampi over the Allinic or vice versa, but the conditions were more than adequate for me to recognize the wonderful and familiar sound of DHT euphonics. I adore them. I also know and understand their limitations.
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As I said, I would not use a show to a/b two dacs that are very similar and make a choice between the two. This was a much simpler exercise and was not ambiguous.

To explain further. At Axpona the GG was set up in one room and the B7 was set up in another. Completely different rooms; completely different set ups; and completely different formats were played. In each case I heard clearly the familiar sound of DHT goodness. PCM, DSD, Room1, Room2, System1, System2 it did not matter. In each case I heard the mid range linearity with frequency limitations, coloration (method of distorting through even order harmonics), and higher noise floor I associate with this architecture. I listened at very high volumes and very low volumes in assessing these results in both locations. I love this type of sound and the dac "who's name we shall not mention" is quite good at its reproduction, but I do not want it all the time. While it is quiet for a DHT, it is not, IMO, as linear beyond the mid range, as low in overall distortion, or as quiet as the MSB. These are things I value in my baseline dac. Why does this bother you so much? Mike said essentially the same thing about the dac "who's name we shall not mention" in post #69 above". I will repeat it here to help you.

Interesting. Like I said in my review, it's like adding a top notch SET amp to your system. For some, that's nirvana, for others it's "too colored". I notice this right away when I switch back to my Lumin or T+A. It doesn't make it right or wrong, just a different delivery.
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I have no idea what motivates you guys that worship the dac "whose name we shall not mention" and I don't care, but your vigorous refusal to allow anyone to have an opposing view or belief can really be a buzz kill. Especially when people are called flawed and wrong. Try to accept the fact that people have different values systems. It's not a contest. After I spent several months evaluating the merits of the dac "whose name we shall not mention" and spent most of a day listening to its sonic signature that immediately jumped out to me in the first 30 seconds (just like it does to Mike), I decided to spend a lot more money on something different because I value that something. But all you guys do is try to point out to the masses what an idiot I am. I understand your motivation is not financial (even though I have seen some coincidental behavior), but it sure is odd.
 
Is this an MSB thread...just asking?

I see trolling and pontificating about Dacs that shall not be named. LoL

Please respect the wish of the OP and stay on topic.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Bonzo, I answered your question regarding my show experience in post #68 above. I will repeat it here to help you.



As I said, I would not use a show to a/b two dacs that are very similar and make a choice between the two. This was a much simpler exercise and was not ambiguous.

To explain further. At Axpona the GG was set up in one room and the B7 was set up in another. Completely different rooms; completely different set ups; and completely different formats were played. In each case I heard clearly the familiar sound of DHT goodness. PCM, DSD, Room1, Room2, System1, System2 it did not matter. In each case I heard the mid range linearity with frequency limitations, coloration (method of distorting through even order harmonics), and higher noise floor I associate with this architecture. I listened at very high volumes and very low volumes in assessing these results in both locations. I love this type of sound and the dac "who's name we shall not mention" is quite good at its reproduction, but I do not want it all the time. While it is quiet for a DHT, it is not, IMO, as linear beyond the mid range, as low in overall distortion, or as quiet as the MSB. These are things I value in my baseline dac. Why does this bother you so much? Mike said essentially the same thing about the dac "who's name we shall not mention" in post #69 above". I will repeat it here to help you.



I have no idea what motivates you guys that worship the dac "whose name we shall not mention" and I don't care, but your vigorous refusal to allow anyone to have an opposing view or belief can really be a buzz kill. Especially when people are called flawed and wrong. Try to accept the fact that people have different values systems. It's not a contest. After I spent several months evaluating the merits of the dac "whose name we shall not mention" and spent most of a day listening to its sonic signature that immediately jumped out to me in the first 30 seconds (just like it does to Mike), I decided to spend a lot more money on something different because I value that something. But all you guys do is try to point out to the masses what an idiot I am. I understand your motivation is not financial (even though I have seen some coincidental behavior), but it sure is odd.
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That description of yours from a show, while explained well, is very basic, and I would never do it for an electronic item at any show, especially one where changing the valves changes the sound. I have demoed a lot of items at Munich and other shows, and never posted unless I heard them in proper environments. Just basic responsible audiophilia. I am quite happy for you to value another dac, and post good things about it, but be honest with yourself in your auditions, not go to shows and think oh wow I have this figured out now.

I will point out the silliness in evaluating a planar speaker placed close to the front wall I will point out the silliness in this show evaluation.

I posted those links to let you know that I brought this up BEFORE you posted your negative review. I guess this was lost on you.

As for motivation, this is an audio forum. All we do is live and die by audio here, if you go to a bodybuilding forum, people will defend their protein powder. That said, again this defense is not about any particular dac, but about the silliness in a hifi show evaluation.
 
bonzo said:
That description of yours from a show, while explained well, is very basic, and I would never do it for an electronic item at any show, especially one where changing the valves changes the sound. I have demoed a lot of items at Munich and other shows, and never posted unless I heard them in proper environments. Just basic responsible audiophilia. I am quite happy for you to value another dac, and post good things about it, but be honest with yourself in your auditions, not go to shows and think oh wow I have this figured out now.

Ps: I will ignore your ad hominems, I have not indulged in any, but just like I will point out the silliness in evaluating a planar speaker placed close to the front wall I will point out the silliness in this show evaluation.

I posted those links to let you know that I brought this up BEFORE you posted your negative review. I guess this was lost on you
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Well Bonzo, I want you to know that I am sorry if I have no met your expectations as a responsible audiophile. I will try to do better in the future. In the mean time I think you should look up the word ad hominem. You have called my thinking flawed, wrong, silly, and irresponsible. Those are ad hominems. I, in turn, have questioned the rationality of your motivation which by definition is an assault on your character, but it is also a reaction to your assault on mine.

Regarding the second bold, it can not be clearer that my point related to show observations was in fact lost on you. For the third time, I would not make subtle measurements at a show. What I was measuring was so obvious you could do it at a show practically in an instant. (As Mike has done in his system.)
 
Again I did not assault your character, I would post the same to someone who made a judgement listening to a planar stuck to the front wall
 
bonzo said:
Again I did not assault your character, I would post the same to someone who made a judgement listening to a planar stuck to the front wall
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I find it difficult to believe you honestly don't understand what you just said but maybe you don't. => "I did not assault your character I would [call any one stupid that does something I consider to be stupid]." Ok, well I am glad we cleared that up. I will do my best to be a good boy and buy dacs the way you want me to in the future.

Before we move on, can I ask you a couple simple questions? Is it possible that anyone on the planet earth could buy any dac made on the planet earth besides the "one who's name we shall not mention" and gain your approval? Should all dac manufacturers just close up shop because this issue is completely settled? Maybe vinyl should too? I am completely serious. Help me understand your view on this.
 
I have a silly digital audio joke to liven things up since we have been getting so serious.

Question: What's the difference between the DHT dac "whose name we shall not mention" and the Allnic D5000DHT dac?

Answer: Three guys on the internet.


Get it???.....pretty funny huh?
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Before we move on, can I ask you a couple simple questions? Is it possible that anyone on the planet earth could buy any dac made on the planet earth besides the "one who's name we shall not mention" and gain your approval? Should all dac manufacturers just close up shop because this issue is completely settled? Maybe vinyl should too? I am completely serious. Help me understand your view on this.
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Of course. There are so many people who have bought other dacs that I have not said anything on the forum too. Why I find your case disturbing is I knew you were excited about the Lampi, yet you used a hifi show to make a judgement, a judgement that most Lampi users who have heard it in proper conditions will tell you is incorrect. Had you just got out and bought msb, never having considered Lampi, or demoed the Lampi at home, tried a couple of valves, and then bought msb, would have been fine.

As for TT, I will sell my Lampi the day I land a cheap deal on a couple of thousand of used quality classical vinyl, and invest in a TT.

For the record, both audiophile Bill here and I didn't like the Lampi room in Munich. He didn't own one then and was disappointed, but then heard mine at home and now has bought the B7 which he has upgraded in a couple of weeks to GG.

I also tell him off because he keeps using hifi shows.to judge Martin Logans, which never sound good at a show
 
bonzo said:
Of course. There are so many people who have bought other dacs that I have not said anything on the forum too. Why I find your case disturbing is I knew you were excited about the Lampi, yet you used a hifi show to make a judgement, a judgement that most Lampi users who have heard it in proper conditions will tell you is incorrect. Had you just got out and bought msb, never having considered Lampi, or demoed the Lampi at home, tried a couple of valves, and then bought msb, would have been fine.

As for TT, I will sell my Lampi the day I land a cheap deal on a couple of thousand of used quality classical vinyl, and invest in a TT.

For the record, both audiophile Bill here and I didn't like the Lampi room in Munich. He didn't own one then and was disappointed, but then heard mine at home and now has bought the B7 which he has upgraded in a couple of weeks to GG.

I also tell him off because he keeps using hifi shows.to judge Martin Logans, which never sound good at a show
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I am audiophile bill and can attest to not liking the Lampi / Avantgarde room in Munich - sounded most uninspiring to me. And yes I am guilty of writing off Logans by the umpteen poo auditions I have heard at shows.

Anyway. Paul - I think you have made an incorrect assessment on the rose tinted, rolled off, and coloured Lampi signature. The output tubes substantially impact the signature to go from fast, dynamic and exceptionally detailed (101d) to romantic and full bodied with 300b as an example. Also the recti can substantially impact the sound. There are some traits you always get like vast 3d soundstage and always engaging. When I borrowed Bonzos big 7, I used one combination of recti, cabling and 101d that I really did not like as it sounded very solid state in the sense I did not like. Fwiw - I have no idea why anyone would buy an MSB after the few auditions I have heard (not of select though) under *show conditions* but I still would not write MSB off without hearing head to head at home.
 
IMG-20150627-WA0003.jpg

Btw here is a Total dac demo I recently had at a guy's place, and had taken my Lampi over as well. I have not posted anything about the Total dac on any forum because given that room and speakers I don't think it's fair to do so. He is expanding the room and getting better speakers, and I will then visit him again.
 
Well since you have decided to trash this thread I decided to go outside and stick a tube in a pile of my dogs crap to see if it helped. Nah. It still smells like crap.

I'll wait for a thread that people add value to. Bye
 
still-one said:
Well since you have decided to trash this thread I decided to go outside and stick a tube in a pile of my dogs crap to see if it helped. Nah. It still smells like crap.

I'll wait for a thread that people add value to. Bye
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Apologies. I will go off this.
 
bonzo said:
Of course. There are so many people who have bought other dacs that I have not said anything on the forum too. Why I find your case disturbing is I knew you were excited about the Lampi, yet you used a hifi show to make a judgement, a judgement that most Lampi users who have heard it in proper conditions will tell you is incorrect. Had you just got out and bought msb, never having considered Lampi, or demoed the Lampi at home, tried a couple of valves, and then bought msb, would have been fine.

As for TT, I will sell my Lampi the day I land a cheap deal on a couple of thousand of used quality classical vinyl, and invest in a TT.

For the record, both audiophile Bill here and I didn't like the Lampi room in Munich. He didn't own one then and was disappointed, but then heard mine at home and now has bought the B7 which he has upgraded in a couple of weeks to GG.

I also tell him off because he keeps using hifi shows.to judge Martin Logans, which never sound good at a show
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Bonzo, The above bolded statement is kinda ridiculous. Someday after listening to your "dac who's name we shall not say" for a lengthy time you, I am sure, you will have an occasion to listen to a quieter, more full range, lower distortion dac and you will hear a difference. I prefer that difference in my baseline digital. That's me. What Bill thought about Munich has no relevance on the matter. Don't tell me you think the "dac who's name we shall not say" has a lower noise floor and lower distortion than the MSB? People may not like the MSB but this point is not in dispute. The only thing that is in dispute is my taste in sound which is not up for negotiation.

Back to my question, I take it from the first paragraph the only people who have not bought the dac "who's name we shall not say" that you approve of are those that did not look into the dac "who's name we shall not say" first and, as such, remained ignorant. Goodness, you need to get after those poor dudes and stop wasting so much time on me.
 
still-one said:
Well since you have decided to trash this thread I decided to go outside and stick a tube in a pile of my dogs crap to see if it helped. Nah. It still smells like crap.

I'll wait for a thread that people add value to. Bye
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Jim, You can run but you can't hide. It doesn't matter what forum, hell it doesn't even need to be digital, the thread is going down because of the dac "who's name we shall not say." It is much bigger than us mere mortals. Lock your doors at night and look under your bed before you turn the lights out. They are every where.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Bonzo, The above bolded statement is kinda ridiculous. Someday after listening to your "dac who's name we shall not say" for a lengthy time you, I am sure, you will have an occasion to listen to a quieter, more full range, lower distortion dac and you will hear a difference. I prefer that difference in my baseline digital. That's me. What Bill thought about Munich has no relevance on the matter. Don't tell me you think the "dac who's name we shall not say" has a lower noise floor and lower distortion than the MSB? People may not like the MSB but this point is not in dispute. The only thing that is in dispute is my taste in sound which is not up for negotiation.

Back to my question, I take it from the first paragraph the only people who have not bought the dac "who's name we shall not say" that you approve of are those that did not look into the dac "who's name we shall not say" first and, as such, remained ignorant. Goodness, you need to get after those poor dudes and stop wasting so much time on me.
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Paul - I don't think that anyone would dispute lower noise floor and distortion. You can obtain imperceptible levels of both those parameters for $1k in the form of an oppo - does not mean one would prefer the sound. Anyway - going down the measurebator route is rather pointless given that many audiophiles prefer vinyl with comparatively horrendous measurements and amps like the ongaku with 5% distortion.
 
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