MSB Pro USB

Kingsrule said:
OK I just changed from PRO USB back to renderer w/Gigafoil....I'll let things settle/warm up for awhile before listening
Click to expand...

The Ethernet cable makes a big difference. Mike #2 loves the AQ Diamond. I love the weightiness and smoothness of the Shunyata Sigma. TOUGH call. We preferred both cables with the GigaFoil/Keces P3 rather than without.


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Mike said:
I’ve had the MSB ProUSB in the store for over a week now. This one was not a prototype, but rather a completed version and one which I purchased.

How does it compare? Like everything it comes down to personal preference. However, I thought it best to have a few customers over for the shootout.

We wanted to compare:

1. MSB Roon Renderer (from wall w/AQ Diamond Ethernet to Renderer)
2. MSB Roon Renderer (from wall with CAT6 to GigaFoil/Keces P3 to Renderer)
3. MSB ProUSB (from wall w/AQ Diamond Ethernet to Aurender, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC)
4. MSB ProUSB (from wall with CAT6 cable to GigaFoil/Keces P3 to AQ Diamond Ethernet to Aurender, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC).
5. MSB ProUSB (from wall w/AQ Diamond Ethernet to Innous Statement - on demo/loan, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC).
6. MSB ProUSB (from wall with CAT6 cable to GigaFoil/Keces P3 to AQ Diamond Ethernet to Innous Statement, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC).
7. MSB ProUSB (from wall w/AQ Diamond Ethernet to Roon Nucleus Plus with Keces P8, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC).
8. MSB ProUSB (from wall with CAT6 cable to GigaFoil/Keces P3 to AQ Diamond Ethernet to Roon Nucleus Plus with Keces P8, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC).

At all times, the cables were:

- AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet
- Cheapo Cat 6 (when feeding the GigaFoil)
- AudioQuest Diamond USB
- Analysis Plus Power Cables on the MSB Select II DAC
- AQ Hurricane Source Cables on the various Music Server Transports.

Speakers for the Testing:

B&W 800D3’s with a pair of DB1D subs
Luxman M900u Monos
Luxman C900u Preamp
AQ Speaker Cables and IC’s

- We played an assortment of redbook, high res and DSD64, 256 and 512 files. No MQA as we were playing off the NAS at all times.

Phew!

Findings:

- We found the AQ Diamond with GigaFoil/Keces direct to the MSB Roon Renderer to be the most transparent, with the GigaFoil/Keces taking out some of the grunge in the upper registers.

- The ProUSB nullified the benefits of the GigaFoil/Keces P3. We could hear a big difference in configuration #1/#2, but not once we introduced the ProUSB (which converts USB to Fiber Optic - ProISL).

- However, it was unanimous that the #5 configuration sounded best overall, but finished second due to the reasons noted below. The Innous Statement had meat on the bones, without any noticeable loss in transparency, and sounded very analog. HOWEVER, two notes:

- The Roon Nucleus Plus in the #7 configuration was incredibly close to the Innous Statement - as in 99 vs 100. The Roon Nucleus Plus allows full NATIVE DSD and DSD512. This gave it the edge for our winner in the shootout.

- the Innous Statement is NOT capable of NATIVE DSD on any MSB DAC (via the ProUSB) and it DOES NOT play DSD256 or above on any DAC (limited to DSD128). This may not matter to some, but the NATIVE vs DoP was a big deciding factor, plus we couldn’t play our DSD512 files. If these things aren’t important to you, than the Innous is a worth considering. But in our configuration, it was so close to the $2498 Roon Nucleus Plus, that it was literally indistinguishable when paired with the ProUSB. I have no doubt it is superior on other DAC’s feeding them straight via USB, but for our tests - going into the great equalizer - the ProUSB, it was too close to call.

Therefore, for all the reasons mentioned above, the #7 configuration (MSB ProUSB (from wall w/AQ Diamond Ethernet to Roon Nucleus Plus with Keces P8, AQ Diamond USB to ProUSB, ProUSB via ProISL to ProISL module in the DAC) was the overall winner.

NOTE: My Lumin U1 was not available for this test. I will be bringing it in and testing against the Roon Nucleus + shortly.
Click to expand...

Well, we can now declare a winner: AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet or Shunyata Sigma Ethernet depending on flavoring —> Lumin U1 —> AQ Diamond USB or Shunyata Sigma USB —> ProUSB —> ProISL.

The Lumin U1 was 3D to the extreme. Provided amazing focus. Transparent but musical. Dead quiet. Bass was excellent, deep and detailed.


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I just read the 44 posts here to try and understand the work that has been done. thanks to Mike and others for all the information. thought I would add my own experience.

it seems that the choice of server might be the dominant factor in where optimization of performance might be found with the MSB Select II. in my case I had the SGM 2015, and a month ago upgraded to the SGM Extreme. to begin with I was using the Renderer V2 and Ethernet copper. adding the Extreme was a huge step up in performance all around.

Emile (designer of the Extreme) encouraged me to try USB, to compare to the Renderer. so I did, using the Curious USB. this was very close, with a slight nod to the USB. it was a little more 'not there'. next I added the MSB Pro USB. now this was a significant step up. less processed, better bass, more separation in the soundstage. less digital. at this point I removed the Renderer module from the Select II. another small step up with a slightly lower noise floor.

next I replaced the Ethernet copper into the Extreme with SPF modules and 15m of single mode OS2 fibre to my upstairs gigaswitch which was another clear step up. lower noise, more vivid and improved bass.

next, convinced I'd found my long term interface, I splurged on a top flight USB cable, the Gobel USB. immediately the digital glare was gone. absent. of course, I never realized it was there until then. this was a big deal.

lastly I had my son install 32tb of PCIe drives inside my Extreme.....and Emile transferred all my 17tb of files from my NAS upstairs to now local drives inside the Extreme. this was almost as big as the Gobel USB addition and complimented the Gobel in how it sounds.

I'm now wondering if this can challenge my vinyl, and really enjoying what I'm hearing.

btw; I use Tidal and Qobuz with Roon and the upgrades all pushed the sound quality of those forward too, except the change to the PCIe drives which increased the margin of advantage to my files over the streaming. right now those files are crazy great sounding.

not sure any of my experience relates to the use of other servers, but figured it might have some relevance anyway.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
I just read the 44 posts here to try and understand the work that has been done. thanks to Mike and others for all the information. thought I would add my own experience.

it seems that the choice of server might be the dominant factor in where optimization of performance might be found with the MSB Select II. in my case I had the SGM 2015, and a month ago upgraded to the SGM Extreme. to begin with I was using the Renderer V2 and Ethernet copper. adding the Extreme was a huge step up in performance all around.

Emile (designer of the Extreme) encouraged me to try USB, to compare to the Renderer. so I did, using the Curious USB. this was very close, with a slight nod to the USB. it was a little more 'not there'. next I added the MSB Pro USB. now this was a significant step up. less processed, better bass, more separation in the soundstage. less digital. at this point I removed the Renderer module from the Select II. another small step up with a slightly lower noise floor.

next I replaced the Ethernet copper into the Extreme with SPF modules and 15m of single mode OS2 fibre to my upstairs gigaswitch which was another clear step up. lower noise, more vivid and improved bass.

next, convinced I'd found my long term interface, I splurged on a top flight USB cable, the Gobel USB. immediately the digital glare was gone. absent. of course, I never realized it was there until then. this was a big deal.

lastly I had my son install 32tb of PCIe drives inside my Extreme.....and Emile transferred all my 17tb of files from my NAS upstairs to now local drives inside the Extreme. this was almost as big as the Gobel USB addition and complimented the Gobel in how it sounds.

I'm now wondering if this can challenge my vinyl, and really enjoying what I'm hearing.

btw; I use Tidal and Qobuz with Roon and the upgrades all pushed the sound quality of those forward too, except the change to the PCIe drives which increased the margin of advantage to my files over the streaming. right now those files are crazy great sounding.

not sure any of my experience relates to the use of other servers, but figured it might have some relevance anyway.
Click to expand...

Mike,

You’re an animal!! :D Well done!

Ken
 
Kingsrule said:
Mike L

Can you play DSD512 files with your current setup?
Click to expand...

short answer--don't know.

i have no dsd512 files, but i have 60 or so 'Quad' dsd256 files. so not tried dsd512.

regarding dsd256 'Quad' files, Emile is playing around now with various approaches for these files; both staying in dsd, and up-sampling to 24/352. and we have done quite a bit of testing where i'm listening to changes and telling him how they sound in real time. him in The Netherlands, me near Seattle.

this process is not complete.

i suppose i need to get me some dsd512 to hear what is going on with them.
 
Did you try a simple, isolated ethernet cable solution to the MSB renderer from the Innuos Statement? That's really how its designed to be used.
 
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