Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I respect your thoughts. I'm talking about market realities of people spending that kind of money.
MBL Lives!
- Thread starter Ritmo
- Start date
I respect your thoughts. I'm talking about market realities of people spending that kind of money.
JCS123
Active member
I hear you. Maybe it's a small niche, but I want to believe that there are at least a few high end customers who are interested in the concept.
If not, it wouldn't be the first time that I found myself out of touch with reality...
If not, it wouldn't be the first time that I found myself out of touch with reality...
Mr Peabody
Well-known member
Maybe my wrong interpretation but you seem a bit testy on the subject. To be clear I am on team MBL. With that being said I'd like to push back with a couple items. Hot shots at MBL should have introduced the new products to the press if any visited as no mention of new products I was able to find. I fully believe what you said. In your remarks regarding ARC they as well brought in new capable engineering, after the Acora purchase. I suspect the new owners of MBL have deep pockets which gives MBL a big positive.
I suppose it's debatable based on one's bias how well Dynaudio has done after their similar purchase. From what I see they are thriving pretty well.
We'll have to watch to see how it all plays out.
What you may wish to know is that the new leadership will not be embarking on the same activities as the prior team.
They did announce the new products at Vienna.
Maybe some haven’t reported it yet?
DSP can be used to improve the overall sound of any system in any room (that would include your system in your room). From an engineering perspective, there is no fundamental reason an active speaker with DSP could not emulate the audible behavior of a tube amplifier quite convincingly without needing any tubes inside a speaker.
While some (not most) audiophiles remain skeptical, the industry’s most technically advanced speaker designers increasingly embrace DSP.
DSP has done more for my system than cables, power conditioners, isolation devices, Ethernet switches, streamers, or most of the accessories commonly discussed in audiophile circles.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
DSP works for sure. I use it in my studio. Having said that, it is not embraced by those in the higher end. In all cases I've heard while it makes some great changes, it still has negative aspects to it.
I’ll be the contrarian. I like active speakers a lot! But I don’t think active horn speakers would be my cup of tea. I want 109db efficient speakers so I can use my 2A3 or 45 or type 50.
I like active speakers in the more traditional form. Pylon makes the Jasper 25 in active. Goldmund made some good active speakers. YG and Estelon too. I do think it’s a part of the future of HiFi. There are many things you can do with an active speaker you can’t do with a passive crossover.
That being said, the happy medium is active bass IMO or in my case at home, subs using DSP to fill in the bottom end of my antiques!
I like active speakers in the more traditional form. Pylon makes the Jasper 25 in active. Goldmund made some good active speakers. YG and Estelon too. I do think it’s a part of the future of HiFi. There are many things you can do with an active speaker you can’t do with a passive crossover.
That being said, the happy medium is active bass IMO or in my case at home, subs using DSP to fill in the bottom end of my antiques!
I’m not sure what you mean by DSP not being embraced in the high end. To paraphrase the old Oldsmobile slogan, today’s DSP is not your father’s DSP.
The DSP implementations available today are vastly more sophisticated than what many audiophiles experienced 10–20 years ago. In fact, a growing number of owners of very expensive, so-called “high-end” systems use DSP for room correction, crossover design, bass management, and speaker optimization. Folks are achieving results that would be difficult or impossible to obtain otherwise.
Whether one likes DSP is a matter of personal preference, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that it isn’t embraced in the high end. Its adoption is far more widespread today than many people realize.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I'm basing it on the thousands of high end owners I engage with through my channels, the high end dealers, companies and manufacturers I talk with on a near daily basis, and what is displayed and talked about at shows.
I can count on one hand the number of high end owners who use DSP.
On mid-fi it is certainly more popular for sure and in the professional world.
W9TR
Active member
Michael is right. Audio flat-earthers don’t favor powered speakers, DSP or not, because they eliminate several variables and choices in system setup. No need to try and match amps and speaker cables to the speakers. No chance to spend $10k on wire between amps and speakers. No chance to spend $100k on amps. Less secret sauce = less influence on the sonic outcome. That will take the ‘fun’ out of it for a lot of folks. This built-in resistance is real.
When I was designing speaker systems for high end corporate jet aircraft I went to all powered speakers. I could achieve a much better sonic result that way given the size and weight constraints I had. I wish I had DSP at the time - I could have made a better sounding system.
I’ve auditioned the Dutch and Dutch 8C and really like what I’m hearing. The high end B&O speakers - not so much.
It will be interesting to follow what high end manufacturers are doing with DSP as it continues to evolve and get better.
I wish MBL all the best. I still want to get a set of MBL 101E MKII - probably my end game speakers.
When I was designing speaker systems for high end corporate jet aircraft I went to all powered speakers. I could achieve a much better sonic result that way given the size and weight constraints I had. I wish I had DSP at the time - I could have made a better sounding system.
I’ve auditioned the Dutch and Dutch 8C and really like what I’m hearing. The high end B&O speakers - not so much.
It will be interesting to follow what high end manufacturers are doing with DSP as it continues to evolve and get better.
I wish MBL all the best. I still want to get a set of MBL 101E MKII - probably my end game speakers.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
No wonder, WT9R is right!My cables cost a lot more than that.
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Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
For sure. We choose to get the best sound possible.No wonder, WT9R is right!
When we're not too busy making sure we don't fall off the end of the earth, we're listening to the best sounding music
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griffithstrife
Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 35
As a new 101e mkII owner, I am terrified of the change. B&W seem to release a new special color every quarter. I will not be moving brands or speakers for a bit. But I would like the brand not to dilute the legacy. Not saying they are, but Jeremy left, and no one is saying anything.
I know the dealers are all singing the praises of the new management. What I hear, "new owner is amazing, he gets it and wants to grow the brand" What I see is every MBL dealer blowing out their inventory, like they just ate Indian food from a gas station.
For the other debate, high end audio is dead. At least for a few generations. The tweaker\chaser crowd is old they are nearing the end. The crowd that does have the money will still spend high end money. But they will spend it on Bose like slop think Beolab.
The midfi people will become obsessed with recreating classic high end sound but using cardboard and rubber bands.
The rare few who know and appreciated real sound will keep the used market alive. But only for the next 30 years, once they implant the ocular neural network. Its game over for all sound systems, except for the people who like to display them for history sake.
Kids will say " what is that mister?" and the old man will say "a relic of a more civilized era, then people would hear together. And argue about the sound" Those kids heads will fucking explode, they will tell tales of the sightings, they will wonder together what it is like to hear together. They will be the ones to revive high end audio, they are named the hearers.
I know the dealers are all singing the praises of the new management. What I hear, "new owner is amazing, he gets it and wants to grow the brand" What I see is every MBL dealer blowing out their inventory, like they just ate Indian food from a gas station.
For the other debate, high end audio is dead. At least for a few generations. The tweaker\chaser crowd is old they are nearing the end. The crowd that does have the money will still spend high end money. But they will spend it on Bose like slop think Beolab.
The midfi people will become obsessed with recreating classic high end sound but using cardboard and rubber bands.
The rare few who know and appreciated real sound will keep the used market alive. But only for the next 30 years, once they implant the ocular neural network. Its game over for all sound systems, except for the people who like to display them for history sake.
Kids will say " what is that mister?" and the old man will say "a relic of a more civilized era, then people would hear together. And argue about the sound" Those kids heads will fucking explode, they will tell tales of the sightings, they will wonder together what it is like to hear together. They will be the ones to revive high end audio, they are named the hearers.
Psst….maybe some are unloading things because we know new things are coming? Xtreme mk3, new noble digital, etc.
- Thread Author
- #38
As a 5 year owner of the MBL 101E MKIIs, MBL 6010D and 9008A amps, I’m not worried.
Yes, hard to see some of the key talent of the company leave is concerning. But, I really love the way my system sounds. And, it would take a significant investment to attain the same level enjoyment I get from my system.
To be transparent, I’m in my late 60s. I have upgraded just about everything around my MBL system - Kuzma TT and Arm, Pink Faun digital server, MSB Cascade DAC. So, my plan is to enjoy my system for many years to come. I’m not going to worry about who owns MBL.
The only concern for me is related to service if the company gets in trouble. But, that’s no different than many high end companies that have an owner without a good succession plan.
So, relax and enjoy the music. If you have the right room with a great setup, hard to beat MBL - assuming you enjoy their Omni presentation.
griffithstrife
Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 35
And I accept that and left room for it, but until it comes to fruition. All the big questions remain, new stuff so soon after acquisition? It is stuff that's been in development for years? Is it new long overdue upgrades? Or is it a money play? I mean its all a money play but, that should not be the driving focus.
I OWN and love MBL I am not shitting on them, but its been some time since new ownership took over. I am not saying they need to reveal anything to us. But they should be communicating, something as simple as an update on the ad MBL used to run about the conductor. Just something to say, here is the old philosophy here is the new philosophy.
griffithstrife
Member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 35
I agree 100% but, that is not the point. I am simply saying a little messaging goes a long way.