Maybe it’s always been like this…

[2FarGone]

I’ve been buying and/or selling used gear for well over 30 years now. Other than my first experience with the buyer from Hell (which resulted in a 10 year retreat), most of my 35-40 transactions have been good, although there’s also little doubt that first fiasco made me a good deal more cautious about who I actually do business with.

Lately though, it seems the playing field has deteriorated. Even with following my normal process (phone call, no alarm bells) on my next-to-last transaction with a very expensive item I felt the item was misrepresented (it was advertised as perfect in all ways), and the seller of an item I was interested in buying recently has now flaked - gone radio silent after I told him okay, let’s do this. I wasn’t out any cash thankfully, but I had invested a fair amount of time in researching his somewhat obscure product. Sellers don’t appreciate having their time wasted, but neither do buyers, and I’ve been on both sides roughly equally.

Maybe it’s always been so and I just got lucky after that first disaster, but some of the postings I’ve seen on another audio marketing website make clear to me that, for some of these people, personal adherence to a high ethical standard is not a priority.

The dealers here may be inclined to say I told you so, but has anything really changed or was it always like this? Have the standards and protocols changed while I wasn’t looking? It wouldn’t be the first time I missed a cultural shift.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I’ve been buying and/or selling used gear for well over 30 years now. Other than my first experience with the buyer from Hell (which resulted in a 10 year retreat), most of my 35-40 transactions have been good, although there’s also little doubt that first fiasco made me a good deal more cautious about who I actually do business with.

Lately though, it seems the playing field has deteriorated. Even with following my normal process (phone call, no alarm bells) on my next-to-last transaction with a very expensive item I felt the item was misrepresented (it was advertised as perfect in all ways), and the seller of an item I was interested in buying recently has now flaked - gone radio silent after I told him okay, let’s do this. I wasn’t out any cash thankfully, but I had invested a fair amount of time in researching his somewhat obscure product. Sellers don’t appreciate having their time wasted, but neither do buyers, and I’ve been on both sides roughly equally.

Maybe it’s always been so and I just got lucky after that first disaster, but some of the postings I’ve seen on another audio marketing website make clear to me that, for some of these people, personal adherence to a high ethical standard is not a priority.

The dealers here may be inclined to say I told you so, but has anything really changed or was it always like this? Have the standards and protocols changed while I wasn’t looking? It wouldn’t be the first time I missed a cultural shift.

I don't think it's always been like that. I think society in general has lost its moral compass to a large extent.

Everyone is allowed to be a victim. Everyone is 'owed' something. Every has a right to "their truth" rather than reality.

 

[JCS123]

I don't think it's always been like that. I think society in general has lost its moral compass to a large extent.

Everyone is allowed to be a victim. Everyone is 'owed' something. Every has a right to "their truth" rather than reality.

So true, Michael. Another thing to consider: I truly believe that the Covid experiment made some (not all) people rude, self centered and maybe even a bit crazy.

Glad we don't have any of that going on here at AS.

 

[Kramer64]

I think the internet and social media are much to blame. People can sit behind a keyboard and lob insults without actually looking their target in the eye-false courage. Consider how often the words "fool," "idiot," "stupid," show up on the audio forums and its a clue. Somehow, folks think that stuff makes them sound smart or tough, when the opposite is true. Doesn't seem to be as prevalent when people are face to face, but social media enables bad behavior.

 

[Mike]

On the preowned side of the business we see shenanigans every day. We get firm offers for something on audiogon, we accept and then crickets. Never to be heard from again. Audiogon gives them a “strike”. Ok, whatever, they create a new profile and rock on.

 

[mep]

On the preowned side of the business we see shenanigans every day. We get firm offers for something on audiogon, we accept and then crickets. Never to be heard from again. Audiogon gives them a “strike”. Ok, whatever, they create a new profile and rock on.

Nothing has changed and covid can't be blamed for this behavior. Liars and cheats have been around forever.

 

[Kramer64]

On the preowned side of the business we see shenanigans every day. We get firm offers for something on audiogon, we accept and then crickets. Never to be heard from again. Audiogon gives them a “strike”. Ok, whatever, they create a new profile and rock on.

Interesting. Why would someone do that? Using it to negotiate elsewhere? That would be low.

 

[W9TR]

I’ve had exceptional luck buying and selling. Until my last transaction, the sale of an expensive subwoofer. I received payment ex shipping from the buyer. In the process of working with the buyer to arrange shipping, he went dark on me. No contact. I have the sub, I have the buyer’s money, and can’t ship the sub. I call and e-mail him weekely. Crickets. This is the weirdest situation I have ever been in. I truly hope the buyer is OK.

 

[puroagave]

I've noticed buyers that promise to buy are also selling something else to fund the purchase. I think the credit crunch has impacted everything. I used to play the float when I could, esp when I had less disposable income. Id put it on plastic and hope my other stuff would sell before the payment was due. Re the flakes that go dark and never return messages? welcome to sales!

 

[mep]

I've noticed buyers that promise to buy are also selling something else to fund the purchase. I think the credit crunch has impacted everything. I used to play the float when I could, esp when I had less disposable income. Id put it on plastic and hope my other stuff would sell before the payment was due. Re the flakes that go dark and never return messages? welcome to sales!

When I was selling my NOLA KO speakers, I had a guy call me and asked me if I would drop my price by $500 so he could afford to buy the speakers. I agreed to reduce the price by $500. Right after that , he asked me if he could drive to my house from NC, pick up the speakers and make payments on them. He said didn't have all the money to purchase them outright

I told him absolutely not as I don't know him and have no reason to trust that he would make payments to me after he had possession of my speakers.

Two days later he called me and said he had all the money now and wanted to make the drive to my house, pay me the cash for the speakers, and load them up and drive back to NC.

He showed up, paid me the money in cash and drove off.

The interesting part for me was sometime later I received a PM from a guy on an audio forum. He said he thinks he bought my pair of NOLA KOs because my name was still on the shipping labels from NOLA that were attached to each wooden shipping crate.

I asked him how much he paid and was surprised to hear he paid $500 more than what I sold them for.

 

[Randy Myers]

Nothing has changed and covid can't be blamed for this behavior. Liars and cheats have been around forever.

This is 100% true. Even way back in the day people did not hesitate to take up huge amount of time from a sales staff and then take the system out to other dealers to see if they could get a better deal. It happened all the time back then and now it is even easier with the Internet.

I have bought and sold many items online but have also backed off considerably in the past couple years. Maybe retiring has given me different perspective. I rarely had a bad experience, but a recent sale made me feel that I absolutely hate selling online. I sold my absolutely perfect Technics table, including some tremendous add on's such as expensive McIntosh RCA cables, Hexmat record mat and record clamp, a second even better AT 750 cartridge along with the original Ortofon, etc.

The customer keep wanting better and better pricing which should have been a clue. Then after it arrived, he claimed a cracked cover which was 100% not the case when shipped. Therefore, I agreed to put in a claim with FedEx. They came through with enough to cover his getting a new dust cover and refunding my shipping. Then out of the blue he claims noise coming through "from the beginning" although he never mentioned it before. Again, the box, the packing, even the cover looked fine from the photos he sent. I gave him the full recovered amount from FedEx and write it off as a bad experience. But it has left me very hesitant any time that it crosses my mind to sell another item; even though I have a 100% positive feedback rating. I am a person who my word is my bond (as my hard-working father taught me) and it really bothers me when people online feel it is ok to act in this manner, thinking they are saving themselves a few bucks .

 

[Randy Myers]

I’ve had exceptional luck buying and selling. Until my last transaction, the sale of an expensive subwoofer. I received payment ex shipping from the buyer. In the process of working with the buyer to arrange shipping, he went dark on me. No contact. I have the sub, I have the buyer’s money, and can’t ship the sub. I call and e-mail him weekely. Crickets. This is the weirdest situation I have ever been in. I truly hope the buyer is OK.

I had a similar experience back when working at a store. Full payment and months of crickets waiting for pickup on the ordered items. In my case the customer finally called and told us about an accident on the way home . It was absolutely terrible and of course we refunded the entire purchase. That was the worse situation I ever remember when working in retail.

 

[Mike]

Interesting. Why would someone do that? Using it to negotiate elsewhere? That would be low.

Honestly? They put in a low ish ball offer thinking we won’t take it. Here’s what they don’t know: we aren’t married to this stuff. We aren’t that guy telling you it’s perfect, you won’t find another one like it and we cleaned it daily using the sweat from the goats in Peru.

It’s my cash sitting in a warehouse. Get it the F out of here.

 

[Mr Peabody]

I've been fortunate when buying and selling.

One time I had a buyer for an amp in Hawaii. I usually will pay shipping which just makes things easier, once I saw shipping charges to Hawaii I about fainted, luckily the buyer agreed to split it with me. It was my old Levinson amp so it wasn't a small package either.

The funniest thing that happened to me I was selling my turntable, a guy wanted pictures. I can't see to do that and didn't want to bug anyone at the time so I told him I would Facetime him. He told me, "you showed me the turntable pretty good for someone who can't see", as if he didn't believe me. That was the case because I never heard from him again. Like why would someone lie about that? I may not see but I'm not stupid and I've used this turntable by myself for years. As Jim Morrison says, people are strange. Even more to the story I said in my ad pick up only. I wasn't about to attempt taking the table apart and putting it back into the box. Maybe he thought I was a robber, LOL

I think that table was cursed. I did end up selling it to a local guy. We listened to it both at my house and his, he wanted to hear it in his system and compare it to what he was using. At one point a guy turned my preamp and one of the RCA plugs came off the turnable cable. He was a dealer so took the table and had it repaired. They put some tape around the plug for reinforcement. I pointed that out to the buyer and explained. So a couple weeks later he calls up after somehow pulling the same plug off and I guess someone who took it to mentioned the tape. The buyer was all upset like I pulled something. I reminded him he heard the table both at my house and his and told him sorry but you are on your own. Clearaudio does use a heavy plug for the type of cable and the wire inside is hair thin. I was shocked. I did offer to get him in touch with the guy who fixed it for me but he trusted this store more who sent the tonearm back to Germany to be rewired. To clarify I used the table probably a couple of years after it was initially fixed. I was confident the issue was on the guy who bought the table.

 

[Mr Peabody]

A second thought. One of our local dealers has always been very open to home auditions. I have borrowed several items from them. That's how I got into power conditioning. I haven't bought anything from them in a long time nor tried to audition anything. I went in with a friend who was looking for speakers I was shocked they no longer allow home auditions. They expected my friend to buy the speakers based on hearing them in the store and would charge restocking fee if returned. The policy change was due to past bad experiences. So maybe things have changed for the worst or maybe it was coincidence and bad things are bound to happen eventually. Sad for them though I can do better online. They could have at least offered to bring the speakers over to his house for a listen. They didn't offer any discount so the least they could do is bring them over. That may not sound right, I just mean it wasn't like a skinny deal where they weren't going to make money if they were willing to put forth effort. They were higher end speaker. The cheapest he listened to were over $10k.

The story does continue. A couple weeks later they want to sell him a trade-in set of speakers. They would offer to deliver them. The price they wanted for them was way over what I saw them for used. He didn't buy them but this dealer has lost their mind. I'm not sure how they plan to stay in business unless there are a lot of people who let themselves get taken advantage of. I would pay a bit more to buy local and have delivery but they were off base.