MAGICO M3 - Review

[Mike]

You should stop with this madness and look at some facts:

I assume JA got his Alexia installed by the proper authorities, right?
So just look at these 3 measurements, taken by JA. On-axis, off-axis, and in-room, they tell it all. We have a rare opportunity to see these two different speakers in the same environment, measured similarly.
Look at how much smoother the S5 off-axis response is, that results in a much better in-room response (different scale on the off-axis, but you can see the Alexia wreckage at 30°). No professional installation will change the Alexia poor off-axis performance, and that will make any room interaction impossible to predict or tame (Ignore the blue line on the S5 in-room, that is a different speaker).

S5 MK2:

Alexia:

Great post!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joe P]

I assume JA got his Alexia installed by the proper authorities, right?

As a matter of fact, yes.

Two JA quotes from the review:

"When you buy a pair of Wilson Audio Specialties loudspeakers, the retailer will install them in your home and perform that fine-tuning. In my case, Wilson's Peter McGrath did the deed."

"If I were to retire tomorrow, the Wilson Alexia would be the speaker I would buy to provide the musical accompaniment to that retirement."

 

[a.wayne]

I guess speaker measurements matters ..

 

[LVB]

As a matter of fact, yes.

Two JA quotes from the review:

"When you buy a pair of Wilson Audio Specialties loudspeakers, the retailer will install them in your home and perform that fine-tuning. In my case, Wilson's Peter McGrath did the deed."

Looks like he did a lousy job.

"If I were to retire tomorrow, the Wilson Alexia would be the speaker I would buy to provide the musical accompaniment to that retirement."

You should read the S5 review, he said the same thing on the S5 (and the Vivid), plus "My measurements of Magico's S5 Mk.II reveal it to be a superbly well-engineered loudspeaker", something he just couldn't say about the Alexia.

 

[Melbguy1]

As I predicted, no amp or cable change will change that. 2 or 3 months break in will not change that either. The speaker you had chosen simply lacks the cone area needed to pressurise your big room. This is simple physics.

Why do you think Magico offers Q5 and Q7 models, apart from the Q3 (M3 equivalent) ? For people with thicker wallets ? No, Q5 and Q7 are meant for bigger rooms.

You need to dial back and get the S7 (which is almost the same price in gloss finish as M3) or even the smaller S5 mk 2. The former has three 10" long throw woofers and the later two 10" long throw woofers (compared to 1x 10" and 1x 8" woofers in the Alexia).

IMO going back to the Alexia makes no much sense - there have been people on this forum that upgraded from Alexia to Magico S5 mk 1 (and the current S5 mk 2 is a much better speaker!).

IMO if you have bought the M3 from a Magico dealer, he should help you out. You should request a return of M3 and get the S7 instead. Ofc, the demo will be necessary first.

Unfortunately, from what I read, your dealer seems to be most happy pushing you more new gear instead.

I disagree with your view that no amp or cable change will make a difference to the M3's bass. I think the issue here is timing. As I said earlier...

However I wouldn't put the cart before the horse by considering an amp upgrade just yet. Let your speakers run in, then experiment with speaker positioning. And if you're still not getting enough bass depth and slam, then it's time to consider an amp upgrade.

That is because while the speakers are still running in, the bass drivers are still tight and the x-over parts are still burning in, hence you won't be able to properly assess the impact of any change of amps or cables at this point.

Using fully run in speakers as a reference, I've heard Vitus SM-011 mono's compared to my SIA-025. The mono's had notably better bass control/slam than my integrated (which is no slouch!). The SM-011 mono's also sounded more neutral in tonal balance.

Re: cables, my friend tested Siltech Triple Crown sc's in his $350k system. His conclusion was they have "tremendous bass, ultimate resolution and pinpoint imaging and image depth". He went on to say "you just hear and feel this wave of bass," So I think cables matter and can definitely influence the sound.

Fyi, I asked Mark Jones from Audio by Mark Jones about the differences b/w the S7 & S5 Mk2 and he said the S7 has a slight edge in bass prentation, but interestingly he felt that the S5 Mk2 has slightly better sound staging/imaging due to the Mk2's machined 3D convex top plate which reduces diffraction and vertical standing waves. But that's another story.

I agree with you however that going back to the Alexia makes no sense.

 

[a.wayne]

You should stop with this madness and look at some facts:

I assume JA got his Alexia installed by the proper authorities, right?
So just look at these 3 measurements, taken by JA. On-axis, off-axis, and in-room, they tell it all. We have a rare opportunity to see these two different speakers in the same environment, measured similarly.
Look at how much smoother the S5 off-axis response is, that results in a much better in-room response (different scale on the off-axis, but you can see the Alexia wreckage at 30°). No professional installation will change the Alexia poor off-axis performance, and that will make any room interaction impossible to predict or tame (Ignore the blue line on the S5 in-room, that is a different speaker).

S5 MK2:

Alexia:

LVB , Do you know If JA used the same smoothing and sampling rate on both speakers , the Magico's do measure well , also i think i now know why Alon wont provide multiple binding post ..

BTW , You would have to measure both speakers accordingly to really compare graphs, but historically Magico's do measure better , but hey , Measurements tells us nothing , right..? You still have to buy , trial and error , move this , amp that , because sometimes there's no Bass ...

 

[LVB]

LVB , Do you know If JA used the same smoothing and sampling rate on both speakers , the Magico's do measure well , also i think i now know why Alon wont provide multiple binding post ..

BTW , You would have to measure both speakers accordingly to really compare graphs, but historically Magico's do measure better , but hey , Measurements tells us nothing , right..? You still have to buy , trial and error , move this , amp that , because sometimes there's no Bass ...

It sure looks like the same smoothing on both speakers (I believe he is using an analog rig to measure so sampling rate is not relevant). You don't need to compare the two to see which is better engineered. You can buy whatever you like, that is a whole different story, but some speakers are (much) better engineered then others.

 

[a.wayne]

Well Yeah the sample rate is necessary and the magico is full gated down to 300 hz with a lot of smoothing, he then measures the woofers in their pressure zones ( dust cap ) cut and splice. The WA are measured gated , individually , cut and spliced , he measures woofers and the ports the same and here in is the likkle devil in the details and where most give him grief, it creates the unnecessary trough where the port transition to the woofer most likely due to phase and scaling.

Now,

By providing one set of binding post , Alon is forcing those who measure to measure his tweeter/mid/mid bass as a whole down to their gating limit, no splicing , looks real good that way. Now if JA were to drag these two outside and do GP measurements or open field measurements we would get a better picture of what each speakers looks like without the silly gating and splicing.


I would also like to see Phase on those FR graphs and i notice you did not include the step response..

But yeah it's all good ... :thumbsup:


Regards ...

 

[Melbguy1]

You are joking right ?

The M3s are better than the S5s, the same way Porsche 911 Turbo S is better than BMW 5 series.

I would hope so for double the price. But even then it is room-dependent as Barry is finding out.

 

[KeithR]

It would be nice if the y-axis was the same on both in-room FR graphs...

 

[a.wayne]

It would be nice if the y-axis was the same on both in-room FR graphs...

Eagle Eye .... I was saving that ......... :rofl:

 

[LVB]

Well Yeah the sample rate is necessary and the magico is full gated down to 300 hz with a lot of smoothing, he then measures the woofers in their pressure zones ( dust cap ) cut and splice. The WA are measured gated , individually , cut and spliced , he measures woofers and the ports the same and here in is the likkle devil in the details and where most give him grief, it creates the unnecessary trough where the port transition to the woofer most likely due to phase and scaling.

Now,

By providing one set of binding post , Alon is forcing those who measure to measure his tweeter/mid/mid bass as a whole down to their gating limit, no splicing , looks real good that way. Now if JA were to drag these two outside and do GP measurements or open field measurements we would get a better picture of what each speakers looks like without the silly gating and splicing.


I would also like to see Phase on those FR graphs and i notice you did not include the step response..

But yeah it's all good ... :thumbsup:


Regards ...

It's actually not good. What's all that gibberish has to do with off-axis and room response (I get it you know how to measure loudspeakers, bravo). There are so many mistakes in what you just wrote that I will just opt out on this one... In the mean time I would recommend reading JA article on how he measures loudspeakers.

 

[kzhtoo]

There's nothing like Wilson and Magico going at it.

 

[Joe P]

There's nothing like Wilson and Magico going at it.

When I started this thread, I had no intention of starting a Wilson vs Magico debate, but
Barry posted that he was having trouble getting his new M3s to work as well in his room as the WA Alexias they replaced.....and we were off to the races.

As I've posted, I don't own either brand.

Hopefully, the discussion has helped Barry.

 

[Jack]

Well regardless of all the chest pumping that has gone on the last couple of days Barry is the one on the hook for over $70k for a speaker that he believes doesn't work in his room. How much of that issue is the result of the room or the speaker design differences can be argued forever but it doesn't help Barry. If Barry didn't communicate the possible difficulties of his room or the dealer didn't take them into account at this point is mute. The question is how can Barry and the dealer work the problem out so neither one of them gets stuck. If the dealer has a waiting list for the M3 then the problem is easily resolved. If not then it becomes more difficult. I don't think any dealer would or should have to eat a $70,000 speaker return because it didn't work out unless that was part of the original agreement for purchase. So instead of the "fans" arguing constantly about whose is better how about we help Barry try to resolve his issue without spending another $50,000 or more on your preferred amps and cables. Novel ideal I know.

 

[Melbguy1]

Well regardless of all the chest pumping that has gone on the last couple of days Barry is the one on the hook for over $70k for a speaker that he believes doesn't work in his room. How much of that issue is the result of the room or the speaker design differences can be argued forever but it doesn't help Barry. If Barry didn't communicate the possible difficulties of his room or the dealer didn't take them into account at this point is mute. The question is how can Barry and the dealer work the problem out so neither one of them gets stuck. If the dealer has a waiting list for the M3 then the problem is easily resolved. If not then it becomes more difficult. I don't think any dealer would or should have to eat a $70,000 speaker return because it didn't work out unless that was part of the original agreement for purchase. So instead of the "fans" arguing constantly about whose is better how about we help Barry try to resolve his issue without spending another $50,000 or more on your preferred amps and cables. Novel ideal I know.

That is an overly simplistic and wildly generalized commentary which only diminishes the many worthwhile contributions to this thread, some of which took hours of research and fact-checking which you seem apparently oblivious to. Summarizing the efforts of senior members who have given many hours of their time to this thread alone instead of their loved ones as "chest pumping" by fan boi's is disrespecful. I for one have a terminally ill mother and don't appreciate my time and effort being dismissed as "chest pumping" and being "unhelpful" which ever way you want to spin it.

 

[Jack]

You're free to take it however you choose and as the opinion of another senior member who thinks that the constant justification of personal purchase choices in threads gets old. And as usual you and the ones with a personal stake only read the parts of a post that gives "fuel" to your next post.

 

[LVB]

That is an overly simplistic and wildly generalized commentary which only diminishes the many worthwhile contributions to this thread, some of which took hours of research and fact-checking which you seem apparently oblivious to. Summarizing the efforts of senior members who have given many hours of their time to this thread alone instead of their loved ones as "chest pumping" by fan boi's is disrespecful. I for one have a terminally ill mother and don't appreciate my time and effort being dismissed as "chest pumping" and being "unhelpful" which ever way you want to spin it.

+1

 

[Jack]

And another one checks in. Even though he said he was walking away.

 

[Kippyy]

I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I'm only slightly disappointed so far, but in the big scheme of life,this is a fixable problem. If the M3 doesn't work out in time,Im confident I can find an equitable solution with my dealer. FYI, someone from Wilson informed me that the Alexia may get an upgrade later this year. Perhaps another reason to hear the S7 if necessary.
A dear friend of mine lost a family member tonight which kind of puts high end audio in its proper perspective.
barry