Is there solid state gear that gives the depth and 3D of tubes?

Hello Joe,

I think that part of the reason why tubes may have better depth and 3D is from the drastically simplified circuitry involved in most tube amps. Take a good look under the cover of any quality tube amp and any quality SS amp. SS amps have miles and miles of smiles... Oops! That's what happens when you're spinning some Miles Davis while typing. LOL

Anyway, SS amps have mile upon mile of PC board solder traces and wire, pounds of capacitors, resistors, diodes, etc, etc, while a quality tube amp has very few parts, and some times even hand soldered point-to-point with maybe a few feet total of wire or PC board traces. Then of course, the quality of the output transformers makes or breaks a tube amp as well. Something McIntosh has been known for since the beginning.

I think it's the natural simplicity of the design inherent with most tube amps that make them usually sound so much better than SS designs. I would love to run tube gear again, but for the past 7 years now, I have left my system on 24/7 with music playing. You know how much $$$ that would cost in replacement tubes all the time?! Haha
 
Joe

If you don't have a tube preamp in the house anymore you might want to see if you can borrow one from one of the local dealers or from another members in your area and try it with the Nords with the Sparkos. That might get you closer to where you want to go for all day long listening. Ones with tubes other than 6H30's generally will give you the tube signature that you liked with the GAT, though obviously not to the same level. They will also have a fairly long tube life and be more reasonable to re-tube. If you would rather buy than borrow look for one of the older CJ or Cary preamps that you can turn over easily with little to loss.
 
Charles,

You make a lot of sense. Thanks for responding.

Jack,

Always the voice of reason.
 
Simplicity and minimal parts are the hallmark of Pass's FirstWatt amps, the F7 having the fewest parts of all of them apparently. I can't speak to its "tubeyness" but it definitely throws a better soundstage than other SS amps I have/had and of course there are reviewers who are tube fans who keep a FirstWatt in their arsenal. Worth a listen if you have speakers that are a good match.
 
Hi Ron,

I'd like to try the F7 but I have the Accuphase A-36 and and it is wonderful with 30wpc Class A sound. Based on this piece alone, I would LOVE to try an A-70 or gasp! the A-200 monos. OMG! I bet they'd be great. The Pass XA60.8's or something even up the line a little might be fun too.
 
Joe, with my reference to a component here, the Soulution 520 was in the front of all the amps I am mentioning. Short answer is that that in different stages, my system to me, was never more pleasing or enjoyable than when I had tubes amps. The preamp always helped, but for the qualities that you ask of, it helped improve the ss amps more than tube amps to realize the depth of 3D soundstage as well as improving the holographic experience. Tubes rule!
 
bzr said:
Joe, with my reference to a component here, the Soulution 520 was in the front of all the amps I am mentioning. Short answer is that that in different stages, my system to me, was never more pleasing or enjoyable than when I had tubes amps. The preamp always helped, but for the qualities that you ask of, it helped improve the ss amps more than tube amps to realize the depth of 3D soundstage as well as improving the holographic experience. Tubes rule!
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Amen brother!
 
Hi Joe,

My own personal quest has taken me down the SS power amp paired with tube (or hybrid) preamp path. For my limited money, SS power amps bring the larger power reserves along with dynamics and finesse that I love and when carefully paired with a tube or hybrid preamp, retain that overall tubey goodness too. To find the same balance in tube power amps is certainly possible but at a far larger monetary cost than I can personally afford or am willing to deal with regarding heat output.

I loved the Audio Research 100.2 that I had here for a couple years as it was close to the tube sound with a liquid midrange and ample detail, but it also would drink 150 watts at idle which meant it generated copious heat in my room if left running for 12-18 hours.

A fun little SS amp is the ARC D130. It runs only moderately warm, outputs 200w/channel into 4 Ohms and has a ton of drive and grace also with a liquid smooth midrange like the 100.2. Just for fun, if you see one on the used market for $600-$700 (pretty typical) it might be worth snagging one and giving it a try. The D130 is my "backup" power amp that is fully capable (and has been many times over the years) of being my primary power amp.

http://www.arcdb.ws/D130/D130.html



 
MikeCh said:
Hi Joe,

My own personal quest has taken me down the SS power amp paired with tube (or hybrid) preamp path. For my limited money, SS power amps bring the larger power reserves along with dynamics and finesse that I love and when carefully paired with a tube or hybrid preamp, retain that overall tubey goodness too. To find the same balance in tube power amps is certainly possible but at a far larger monetary cost than I can personally afford or am willing to deal with regarding heat output.

I loved the Audio Research 100.2 that I had here for a couple years as it was close to the tube sound with a liquid midrange and ample detail, but it also would drink 150 watts at idle which meant it generated copious heat in my room if left running for 12-18 hours.

A fun little SS amp is the ARC D130. It runs only moderately warm, outputs 200w/channel into 4 Ohms and has a ton of drive and grace also with a liquid smooth midrange like the 100.2. Just for fun, if you see one on the used market for $600-$700 (pretty typical) it might be worth snagging one and giving it a try. The D130 is my "backup" power amp that is fully capable (and has been many times over the years) of being my primary power amp.

http://www.arcdb.ws/D130/D130.html
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I can vouch for the D130 as well! A great sounding little amp, but it was borrowed from my brother, which who has since sold it. It's only drawback was it was black. If it was silver, I would have bought it off of him!
p1160244238-5.jpg
 
Mike

That pretty sums up what my approach has been for years. When I break out the tube amps during the very short "Winter" period in North Florida I pair them with the STP-SE. I paired Joe's Nords with the 6SN7 based Modwright LS-100 and the Nola KO's for about 10 days and it was a very good match to my ears. I have another even "warmer" 6DJ8 based Kora tube preamp that I could have tried, but is was boxed up. I used it for years with amps from Odyssey and Belles. I suspect it might have gotten even closer to what Joe is looking for. The problem with preamps based on the 6DJ8 family of tubes is that the modern versions are crap and the NOS tubes are climbing in price by leaps and bounds like the 5751's.
 
chops said:
I can vouch for the D130 as well! A great sounding little amp, but it was borrowed from my brother, which who has since sold it. It's only drawback was it was black. If it was silver, I would have bought it off of him!
p1160244238-5.jpg
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Nice Charles! I love the D130. Mine has a silver face :P
 
Jack said:
Mike

That pretty sums up what my approach has been for years.
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:vistory2:

Jack said:
The problem with preamps based on the 6DJ8 family of tubes is that the modern versions are crap and the NOS tubes are climbing in price by leaps and bounds like the 5751's.
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Agreed Jack. I've been collecting various NOS 6DJ8 family tubes lately and indeed they are climbing in price. The good thing is that they tend to last a long, long time.
 
a.wayne said:
If you are looking for a certain sonic signature , Yes !

IMO the only toob gear unmatched for realism by top notch SS is a SET, a good SET does "they are here" better than any, but does require a matched speaker system to make it possible. Well made SS exceeds the best none SET toobs in my opinion , with possibly a Hybrid setup being the best compromise.


Since most Audiophile systems are under powered to begin with , most of what audiophiles like in an amplifier is their clipping characteristics and here is where toobs win out, their higher head room and soft clipping characteristics are more preferable than the typical hard clipping characteristics of SS amplfiers.

Class-D ...!

It's the big dynamic headroom of high powered Class-D amplifiers is what gets most into class-D , well made class-D have very good jump factor ( speed) but fails to coddle with there glassy 2 dim sound , they are impedance sensitive ( speculating due to their output inductors) and as such have issues with timbre, this of course will vary from speaker to speaker. I may also add , most amps do , but Class-D more so than other SS designs..


Regards...
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when I have SS in my system I always wonder how it'd sound with tubes. When I have tubes in the system I'm wondering what the next LP will sound like or the next recording.

When tubes are in my system I don't think about gear.
 
That Black one would have looked great in my rack! :)


chops said:
I can vouch for the D130 as well! A great sounding little amp, but it was borrowed from my brother, which who has since sold it. It's only drawback was it was black. If it was silver, I would have bought it off of him!
p1160244238-5.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I saw this response on Audiogon forums. Pretty funny and I am sure appropriate.

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My Jeff Rowland model 5 amp has a warm sound but is more laid back than my Ray Lumley tube amps. The bass is tighter but not as powerful as in the tube amps either. The soundstage is still deeper with the tube amps but the model 5 has a more transparent sound.

When it was up and running my Bedini 100/100 1 meg solid state amp was more natural sounding (not thin but not overly warm either) and had the best bass control. The highs were not quite as extended, though. Being a class A amp it ran very warm with my Acoustats but the sound was very clear and dynamic without being fatiguing. The soundstage also had depth but not quite as good as my tube amps. I need to get this ss amp repaired (I think it just needs a new power switch - there are two of them). It does have a bit of a transformer hum (only heard without music a foot away from the amp) as it uses 4 of them.
 
Jim Smith said:
Agreed on the Ayre, even though I own the ASR Emitter II... :happy:

We probably agree on the difference between SS & tube amps as well, but from different viewpoints.

I've always felt that most tube amps produced a slight lingering quality to the sound. I've wondered if is microphonics at a very small level. I've thought it was why most tube dampers are thought to "overdamp" the tubes (make them less pleasant to hear).
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I get what you're saying Jim and hear lingering mostly on SET amps, of which I've tried many and ultimately just decided not for me. The term "mile long decay" isn't a good one. I've always thought it more related to negative feedback/high damping factor but I'm no engineer.

Dynamics, presence, and tone include 2 of my 3 system attributes as well :)
 
puroagave said:
when I have SS in my system I always wonder how it'd sound with tubes. When I have tubes in the system I'm wondering what the next LP will sound like or the next recording.

When tubes are in my system I don't think about gear.
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That's because you have it figured out. ;) If you want SS that sounds like tube gear (and none does), buy tube gear. If you are afraid of tube gear and worry yourself to death about the state of your tubes and try to guilt someone by saying you had a house fire caused by tubes only to retract that statement later, sell your tube gear and be done with it.
 
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