Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

LL21 said:
McChicken. Its not that the Daewoo was better (or even as good)...its just that it was not THAT much worse...for $50. THAT SAID,
I have found certain pieces (all second hand/demo, btw) at the ultra high-end can be stunning (not all of them) and offer completely new information, new dynamics from my music...not just better here or there...but wholesale changes to music that take me very close to the event in many cases (mainly acoustic, well-miked, smaller ensembles)...and thrillingly close to much bigger events (organ, Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Soundtracks, and deep house electronic, etc)
, I have heard B&O equipment...and while I think it is very very good quality equipment...you ARE going to find it difficult to blow away what you have. I think you CAN...but I think you should also realize, you have bought well imho. Good luck. My 2 cents. Pls feel free to keep us posted.
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Thanks you LL21 for your honesty and insights TRULY appreciated

As i have a background in Pro-sound, I remember that we had to keep "gear talk" very real...as equipment is a work-tool not just a nice looking accessory or ego-boost.
In a studio you work all day to create a nice"Coloured sound", you tweak all knobs and hook up massive rack systems with equipment that alters the original sound, however when listen to our work that equipment had to be "Black & white" and not culour the sound as we had to deliver products that were as close to what we had in mind to deliver.
But many times I laugh (silently) when Audiophiles talk about pure sound, and I remember that all we did all day long was sometimes adding another "sound tweaking equipment" that added more noise, but gave some cool sound effects, and YES this was during the Analog Era...even though I'm proud to say I was some days in the early 80's the most expensive Studios in the world ( Polar*) that had one of the first digital 24-channel mixing boards. Polar studios was like visiting Heaven e.g. they did not only have one Steinway Grand Piano, they had two...as they sounded different.
* Polar Studios the "ABBA studio", sadly it no longer exist like it was, but we do have the Polar Music Price.
 
babybear said:
Hi McChicken,


Having said the above, the proof is in the pudding, so if you could possibly borrow a CD player - something like an OPPO 103 unit and perhaps some type of preamp and feed these to your Gallo based system, you may hear more of the type of sound you were hoping to hear compared to your Beolab 3 setup.

Anyway, hope this helps a little bit.

Arnie
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Thanks, i will later hook up some other source than my tweaked Sonos to see if the sound can reach another level.
however as I'm listening to so much newly released music as well as re-discovering old album using my spotify trough Sonos is SOOOOO Convenient. I do understand some of the limitations of such a set-up, but the ease of using it is such a massive bonus that I can live with not getting the purest and best sound. Even though I do have lossless music on my HDD/ Itunes I sometimes don't play that as using Spotify is a work tool for me ( I'm soon releasing a music inspirational site, will tell you guys later about it when ready)
 
NorthStar said:
Neil, what kind of artists were recording (getting recorded) at the Polar Studios, "ABBA studio"?
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Led Zeppelin recorded their 1979 studio album, In Through the Out Door, at Polar Studios a few months after its grand opening. Artists such as the Ramones, Rammstein, Roxy Music, Genesis, Adam Ant,Backstreet Boys, Beastie Boys, Belinda Carlisle, Burt Bacharach, Franki, Celine Dion, Roxette, Terra Firma, Entombed, The Hellacopters, Joan Armatrading,
here after 2 minutes you can see the famous Polar Studio with the as well famous producer Micheal B Tretow Polar Music story - YouTube
 
The thing about upgrades, once you have established a "reasonably competant" set of components and set up your system appropriately, is that they are usually somewhat subtle in nature. Getting obvious and mind blowing improvements is largely a factor of seeing big breakthroughs in component design over time. Most upgrades result in things that you will have to listen hard to hear, and will likely not be discernable to the average person. But then, you are in this hobby for your own enjoyment, so spending more $$$ vs getting that subtle change/improvement is your own value choice.

That being said, I do think that better components will result in better sound. It's just that you will be shooting at that final 5% increment where the crazies (like us) live. :P
 
Why not sweeten up the sound for cheap with the Swiss Army knife of Audio? Ifi iTube! Price circa €300-
 
GaryProtein said:
Why can't they select music people actually listen to?

I'd never listen to that stuff at home. Why do they play it at shows?
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You should have seen the horrified look on some of the vendors faces when I asked them to play MY demo CD.
 
LoL

Mike, I had that last week when I asked to play one CD, after the first track and the second, he said I thought you said one! I retorted, ...yeah, ONE CD! LoL . He was not amused. I then had him skip to the Chie Ayado cut, Tennessee Waltz and after a minute I said skip to #14 and then he sharply said NO, we dont skip this one. This one I like and your turn to be patient. LoL. I was smirking quietly...

I was the only one in the room at first and I guess the CD was pulling visitors like flies to honey...cause it was soon half full, though we were tucked away in a corner room.
 
Wow, great thread. I have been too busy lately to keep up.
I love the HE and UHE look and gear but I am not in the financial situation to afford it. I guess if I did not have to worry about the economy, my retirement fund and the need to work into my 70s, I could make purchases if I chose to. That said, I also live by the Law of Diminishing Returns. I always question "Is a $50k amp really 50 times better than a $1K amp?" The answer will always be No but it will indeed be better.

I was lucky to be introduced to Audio as a youngster watching my brother build Heathkits, Dynacos and Hafler gear on the kitchen table and then hear it's beauty. I was also taken to the long gone Soundex in Willow Grove PA to spend my first income tax check on gear. From there on, I was intrigued. When Soundex built the 22 room building, I spent lots of Saturdays listening to the latest and greatest in Room#1. I got to hear all the Krell, Levinson, CJ, Roland, BAT gear with Grand Utopias, Grand Slams, towering Dunlaveys and so on. I know that it is awesome.

My 1st step into a nice setup was with Hafler gear and Mirage 970s, which after after great service was upgraded to Sound Valves pre, Stratos Amp and Dynaudio 82s. It was heaven to me for many years until I lucked into the system in my signature for a steal and some repair by RHB Sound Dezign.

I have 3 reasonable to me setups and none are acoustically correct in setup or rooms and treatment but sound decent and better than the average that any of my friends have. I have been spending time listening to a secondary setup with my smallest speakers, Dynaudio 42s driven by the Stratos amp, the old Hafler 945 and an OPPO93. I am continually surprised by the sound I get to the point that I listen to this setup more than my main rig. These little speakers have no business sounding as big as they do along with incredible bass for a tiny driver. One speaker does sit on a non used sub and I have to show people it's not hooked up for them to believe the bass is all coming from the 42s.

Anyway, just wanted to agree with just about everyone's input.

1- Great sound can be had for a reasonable cost
2- Room treatment and speaker placement is as good as a new pc of gear or better
3- Electrical considerations have huge affects
4- High End gear is incredible but with diminishing returns vs % of increased sound value
6- HE gear is art and a hobby
7- Some megabucks setups can sound worse than an entry level one if components have no synergy or setup is poor

Great thread!

Brian
 
McChicken said:
Led Zeppelin recorded their 1979 studio album, In Through the Out Door, at Polar Studios a few months after its grand opening. Artists such as the Ramones, Rammstein, Roxy Music, Genesis, Adam Ant,Backstreet Boys, Beastie Boys, Belinda Carlisle, Burt Bacharach, Franki, Celine Dion, Roxette, Terra Firma, Entombed, The Hellacopters, Joan Armatrading,
here after 2 minutes you can see the famous Polar Studio with the as well famous producer Micheal B Tretow Polar Music story - YouTube
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Awesome, thanx a bunch Nils! :cool:
 
Shadowfax said:
Anyway, just wanted to agree with just about everyone's input.

1- Great sound can be had for a reasonable cost
2- Room treatment and speaker placement is as good as a new pc of gear or better
3- Electrical considerations have huge affects
4- High End gear is incredible but with diminishing returns vs % of increased sound value
6- HE gear is art and a hobby
7- Some megabucks setups can sound worse than an entry level one if components have no synergy or setup is poor

Great thread!

Brian
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I think Brian summarized the thoughts of most posters here rather nicely.

One other point to remember, to realize the benefits of High End gear you must be willing to occasionally sacrifice aesthetically pleasing furniture placement, long cables lying around, and a have willingness to sit in "the spot" to get the most of out your purchases.

High End gear is only worth it when set-up and used properly. That is no different than automobiles or watches. You will see not benefits from a Ferrari or Porsche if you live and drive on a pot-holed dirt road. That pick-up truck or jeep will do just fine. Now on the autobahn or track......
 
Did a pretty quick side by side comparison between my Beolab 3's ( on floor stands = Must, no Sub) and the Gallo 3.5's & JOB.
I have to even change my statement the BL3's actually is BETTER than the Gallo / JOB combo.
the sound is airier, more 3d and midrange and treble the ( voices…) the BL3's superior and that is without a Sub.
So for sure…I have to look at the source and try something else than the Sonos to see if I can get the Gallo / JOB combo into life.
I will not give up the Gallo / JOB combo, but this was a letdown for sure ….
 
The Gallo's are pretty unique speakers. Some people loathe them. Others rave about em'. Sounds to me like they simply aren't your cup o' fika. And that's fine. I've felt the same way about MANY well reviewed/coveted hi-fi products. :D
 
Zero said:
The Gallo's are pretty unique speakers. Some people loathe them. Others rave about em'. Sounds to me like they simply aren't your cup o' fika. And that's fine. I've felt the same way about MANY well reviewed/coveted hi-fi products. :D
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I will not give up yet…I will see what cures I can find….But for sure I will never let anybody talk crap about the Bang & Olufsen active speakers.
The Beolab 3's are 1.5 liter in volume One woofer, 2 slave woofers, and the dome treble with Lens Technology ( but they cannot be wall mounted)BeoLab 3 - Bang & Olufsen




 
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Petro85 said:
Well for me I need to make my purchases count. My plan has always been. A capable amp and preamp. Nice all around speakers( the fact that I bought new speakers still amazes me because it's the first time I have done so) decent cables , don't need anything special. And I've always liked to put my money toward the source. I always buy new cartridges. I feel that's the most important piece in an analog setup.
And the acoustics and electric are super important and that's my next step.
After that I'm not so sure I'd like to spend a whole
Lot of money on speakers just to have a small improvement , or new amps. But I always feel that I need some different items , like a choice of 2 or 3 cartridges would be nice .
The more I go listen, the more I feel my system is good enough. Time to build the vinyl collection!!!
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Amen! That is close to my thinking on it with a small personal exception in regards to electric and it's placement in the hierarchy (I put it down a bit lower, but if there is a problem one has with it then that raises it up to be addressed. For me, as long as it's fairly consistent and reliable, it's good enough. I don't feel the need to mess with swapping power cords as I consider that to be very risky. The last place I lived had 50 year old wiring and the electricity was dirty, so I ended up getting an expensive power conditioner/surge protector, but there were a couple of times at least when I was glad I had it working for me).
Yes, the gear means nothing if the source is not good.:)
 
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